But I bet our teens are first in Call of Duty: Black Ops

[poindexter]

or facebooking...


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-07/teens-in-u-s-rank-25th-on-math-test-trail-in-science-reading.html

Fifteen-year-olds in the U.S. ranked 25th among peers from 34 countries on a math test and scored in the middle in science and reading, while China’s Shanghai topped the charts, raising concern that the U.S. isn’t prepared to succeed in the global economy.

The Paris-based Organization of Economic Cooperation & Development, which represents 34 countries, today released the 2009 Program for International Student Assessment. For the first time, the test broke out the performance of China’s Shanghai region, which topped every country in all academic categories. The U.S. government considers the test one of the most comprehensive measures of international achievement.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Does good news ever come out about this country anymore?

Disgraceful as usual.

 

[Dick Whitman]

The Atlantic had a study in which it separated out the U.S. states and compared them to other countries. I'll dig it up. I know Massachussetts was first among U.S. states, and like 11th when compared to other countries. Still not good, especially since that's our top educational state, but still better than once you start stirring Mississippi and Alabama and such into the stew.

 

[Dick Whitman]

This is also the kind of stuff that makes me pissed off when I read yet another story about how U.S. teen-agers today are pushed too hard educationally, have too much pressure, etc., etc., etc.

I would argue that the opposite is true. And I'd have lots of data to back me up.

 

[TigerVols]

Does good news ever come out about this country anymore?

Disgraceful as usual.

Soon enough, we're going to learn as a nation that you get out of it what you put into it.

 

[Dick Whitman]

These numbers are such horse****. The US averages are killed by portions of the population that just don't give a **** about education. In countries like China, South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, etc., the value placed on education far outpaces the value here in segments of the population. Averages are made up of highs and lows. We have lots of lows. The rest are doing just fine.

I think that The Atlantic's study was of just high achievers.

We still sucked.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

American kids have been doing poorly in these studies and people have been saying kids are lazy idiots since I was a kid 50 years ago. There are problems in U.S. education to be sure. But I think a lot of this is just the same old old people's rant that kids today suck, packaged up with fraudulent social science statistics. There are so many of these surveys, I think kids around the world must do nothing but take tests.

 

[93Devil]

Every three years, it assesses how far students near the end of compulsory education have acquired some of the knowledge and skills essential for full participation in society.

- Organization of Economic Cooperation & Development

So what percentage of Chinese students reach "the end of compulsory education?"

I wonder how it compares to the USA?

 

[poindexter]

American kids have been doing poorly in these studies and people have been saying kids are lazy idiots since I was a kid 50 years ago. There are problems in U.S. education to be sure. But I think a lot of this is just the same old old people's rant that kids today suck, packaged up with fraudulent social science statistics. There are so many of these surveys, I think kids around the world must do nothing but take tests.

I don't agree.

I don't need this study to tell me what my eyes see.

My wife teaches. Kids come to school so poorly prepared. For ****'s sake, breakfast is now part of the school day because so many kids aren't fed at home. Kids come to school in pajamas, for chrissake. You remember kids coming to school in pajamas when you were in elementary school?

 

[93Devil]

American kids have been doing poorly in these studies and people have been saying kids are lazy idiots since I was a kid 50 years ago. There are problems in U.S. education to be sure. But I think a lot of this is just the same old old people's rant that kids today suck, packaged up with fraudulent social science statistics. There are so many of these surveys, I think kids around the world must do nothing but take tests.

I don't agree.

I don't need this study to tell me what my eyes see.

My wife teaches. Kids come to school so poorly prepared. For ****'s sake, breakfast is now part of the school day because so many kids aren't fed at home. Kids come to school in pajamas, for chrissake. You remember kids coming to school in pajamas when you were in elementary school?

And those students would never be allowed to attend high school in many countries. They would just all be ditch diggers.

But, in America, we try our best to turn ditch diggers into more educated people.

 

[JC]

American kids have been doing poorly in these studies and people have been saying kids are lazy idiots since I was a kid 50 years ago. There are problems in U.S. education to be sure. But I think a lot of this is just the same old old people's rant that kids today suck, packaged up with fraudulent social science statistics. There are so many of these surveys, I think kids around the world must do nothing but take tests.

I don't agree.

I don't need this study to tell me what my eyes see.

My wife teaches. Kids come to school so poorly prepared. For ****'s sake, breakfast is now part of the school day because so many kids aren't fed at home. Kids come to school in pajamas, for chrissake. You remember kids coming to school in pajamas when you were in elementary school?

And those students would never be allowed to attend high school in many countries. They would just all be ditch diggers.

But, in America, we try our best to turn ditch diggers into more educated people.

yet ditch diggers make quite a bit more than "educated" people

 

[Dick Whitman]

If someone has actual proof that the studies are flawed, please present it.

Otherwise, the conjecture and blaming of the messenger and rationalizing just sounds like flag waving.

By the way, the reason that we still do OK is that our university system is still the world's best. Unfortunately, the hard science and engineering PhD programs are stocked with mostly Indians and Asians.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

I was in Detroit a couple years ago and another writer (very high on the journalism totem pole with a degree from a very good school) and I made some comment about going across the border to Windsor.

He said, "I didn't know Michigan bordered Canada."

Our schools suck. It disgusts me.

 

[LongTimeListener]

It sounds like China's achievement was an out-of-nowhere surprise, the NYT even used the word "stun" in the headline. I think it's entirely possible that China viewed the age requirements for these tests to be optional, the same way they viewed the age requirements for the Olympic gymnastics competition to be optional.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I was in Detroit a couple years ago and another writer (very high on the journalism totem pole with a degree from a very good school) and I made some comment about going across the border to Windsor.

He said, "I didn't know Michigan bordered Canada."

Our schools suck. It disgusts me.

And our parents.

In this case, I'd be hard-pressed to blame individual teachers. It isn't their fault. It's systemic. This is where I think teachers need to be paid more, to attract the best and the brightest. And the standards need to be heightened. You set high expectations for children, they will meet them. You set low expectations for children, they will meet them, too.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

I don't by the whole "teachers need to be paid more" garbage.

They make good money, get three months off a year, plus two weeks at Christmas and every holiday off. Plus they get better benefits and pensions than most of us will ever dream of having.

Schools need the money.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I don't by the whole "teachers need to be paid more" garbage.

They make good money, get three months off a year, plus two weeks at Christmas and every holiday off. Plus they get better benefits and pensions than most of us will ever dream of having.

Schools need the money.

You won't attract the best and brightest until you pay best and brightest-level salaries.

Pay more, and make entry into the field more difficult.

Elementary education majors, for example, are an absolute joke. I have heard that graduate schools subtract a few tenths of a point from an elementary ed's GPA when determining admission.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

It has been found that more than one large U.S. school district has reacted to testing to meet standards by simply cheating. I cannot state that the methodology of these studies is incorrect. I can state that I'd be surprised if all countries applied the same standards in the studies and I'd be ASTONISHED if China didn't cheat. China's attitude towards all government statistics is the same -- they just make 'em up.

 

[93Devil]

American kids have been doing poorly in these studies and people have been saying kids are lazy idiots since I was a kid 50 years ago. There are problems in U.S. education to be sure. But I think a lot of this is just the same old old people's rant that kids today suck, packaged up with fraudulent social science statistics. There are so many of these surveys, I think kids around the world must do nothing but take tests.

I don't agree.

I don't need this study to tell me what my eyes see.

My wife teaches. Kids come to school so poorly prepared. For ****'s sake, breakfast is now part of the school day because so many kids aren't fed at home. Kids come to school in pajamas, for chrissake. You remember kids coming to school in pajamas when you were in elementary school?

And those students would never be allowed to attend high school in many countries. They would just all be ditch diggers.

But, in America, we try our best to turn ditch diggers into more educated people.

yet ditch diggers make quite a bit more than "educated" people

****, a few years ago there was a teacher shortage.

Really, JC?

Electricians, HVAC and plumbers, yes, but you do need training and proper certifications to have those careers.

 

[93Devil]

Right now, teachers get paid a decent wage. In the housing boom, they were not. When housing prices came back to a sane level, the teacher salary looks fine.

Two married teachers can afford a decent home now.