BP - Absolute Worst Public Relations Savvy in History of Human Enterprise

[YankeeFan]

Here they are again:

1.) What is the standard & who does it apply to?

The standard is ****ing common sense, and it applies to everyone. I'm not sure what other answer you're fishing for here.

If you're the boss of a company that just caused the worst environmental disaster the history of this hemisphere, a disaster that is STILL ongoing with tons of oil continuing to spew around the clock, then it's probably not a good time for the millions of people suffering from their destroyed coastline to have to see you jetting off to enjoy the yacht races on your country's pristine unpolluted coastlines. Basic common sense.

And, no, it is not the same thing as Obama playing a round of golf. If you can't see the difference, that's your problem.

I understand it's not the same thing.

Where did I say it was?

Why is everyone so defensive?

Did you really expect your President to go eight years and receive no criticism?

It was a couple of simple questions. There's no reason to act like I accused him of kidnapping and murder or like I asked anything tougher than was it a good PR move for Rahm to pile on and for Obama to play a round of golf.

You answer that it's not the same thing. I know that.

Now try to actually answer my question. Was it good PR for Obama? It's not hard.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

Here they are again:

1.) What is the standard & who does it apply to?

The standard is ****ing common sense, and it applies to everyone. I'm not sure what other answer you're fishing for here.

If you're the boss of a company that just caused the worst environmental disaster the history of this hemisphere, a disaster that is STILL ongoing with tons of oil continuing to spew around the clock, then it's probably not a good time for the millions of people suffering from their destroyed coastline to have to see you jetting off to enjoy the yacht races on your country's pristine unpolluted coastlines. Basic common sense.

And, no, it is not the same thing as Obama playing a round of golf. If you can't see the difference, that's your problem.

I understand it's not the same thing.

Where did I say it was?

Why is everyone so defensive?

Did you really expect your President to go eight years and receive no criticism?

It was a couple of simple questions. There's no reason to act like I accused him of kidnapping and murder or like I asked anything tougher than was it a good PR move for Rahm to pile on and for Obama to play a round of golf.

You answer that it's not the same thing. I know that.

Now try to actually answer my question. Was it good PR for Obama? It's not hard.

It's utterly meaningless, indifferent PR to 98% of the country. He's the president. No one reasonably expects him to sit at his desk in the Oval Office, wringing his hands over the inequities of the world 20 hours a day every single day of his term. He gets to golf now and then. He gets to go to ball games. We get that.

The other two percent of the country is desperate to score points by "proving" that BP is Obama's Katrina and will scream about everything he does. To them, it's bad PR... and anything else he close to do would be bad PR with that group, too.

 

[YankeeFan]

No politics.

You should apply to be a moderator. You always so helpful.

And we're not discussing politics. We're discussing the PR savvy of BP and the President.

It's not the same thing.

I haven't commented on or criticized his politics or any political decision.

 

[sportsguydave]

YF: We all know your leanings, so to be fair, your own questions don't exactly spring from a foundation of intellectual honesty. Admit it. Your interests here lie in painting Obama in a bad light.

As to your questions:

1. I'm not sure there are any hard and fast standards for situations like this. Like Harry Blackmun (I believe) once famously said of pornography, you know it when you see it. And good PR certainly doesn't include jetting off to nice clean waters to enjoy a boat race, when your company has fouled thousands of square miles of beaches and water, depriving millions of others of both their livelihood and the chance to enjoy similar receational opportunities. And yeah, as head of the company that caused the problem, the standards certainly apply to Heyward.

2 and 3. Good PR move for Emanuel to attack Heyward? Absolutely. Pretty much a can't-miss situation when tone-deaf dolts like Heyward and his cohorts keep lobbing hanging sliders at you. And as for Obama's leisure activity: I think most Americans are intelligent enough to separate the two. We realize that even when he's on the golf course or at a Nats game, the President is still on duty. I don't think reasonable folks are going to begrudge the President his personal time, unless it's seen to be extreme.

 

[YankeeFan]

It's utterly meaningless, indifferent PR to 98% of the country. He's the president. No one reasonably expects him to sit at his desk in the Oval Office, wringing his hands over the inequities of the world 20 hours a day every single day of his term. He gets to golf now and then. He gets to go to ball games. We get that.

The other two percent of the country is desperate to score points by "proving" that BP is Obama's Katrina and will scream about everything he does. To them, it's bad PR... and anything else he close to do would be bad PR with that group, too.

I disagree with you and I think time will tell.

Criticism is certainly mounting & I think it will get worse -- especially since it doesn't look like the oil spill will end any time soon.

And I don't think you want to give your opponents ammunition.

But at least you answered the question(s) honestly.

Thank you.

 

[The Big Ragu]

Drudge Headline:

BP CEO GOES SAILING
OBAMA GOES GOLFING

Not great PR for the White House.

It's Drudge, YF. Nobody cares. When Drudge falls out of bed, it's Obama's fault. Anybody who's paying attention knows his agenda. But thanks for playing the false equivalency game. Pick up your lovely parting gifts on the way out. :)

Back page of the New York Post this morning, huge "Captain Clueless" headline with photo of the BP CEO.

Of course the story of the day had nothing to do with Obama. And that is the gauge.

The NY Post will trip all over itself to take a shot at Obama if it can, and him playing golf was a non-story to anyone not stretching themselves farther than even the Post will to try to make every story into a strained indictment of Obama (Apparently Matt Drudge and YF form that club).

The populist story of the day (the NY Post will tell you the populist story of the day if it's a national story) was the **** CEO whose company caused an oil spill, and who has displayed just how out of touch with the world he is and just how sheltered the lives of most Fortune 500 CEO's are.

And YF, few people know who Rahm Emanuel is or give two ****s about what he has to say. Even if they did know who he is, Rahm Emanuel poking fun at the BP CEO sparks zero outrage right now. That CEO is about the easiest target on the planet right now.

No matter how much opinion of Obama has suffered over this whole thing, even the people who expect him to personally clean the oil spill with a wet-dry vac by next week have way greater contempt for BP and this CEO (FWIW, the CEO is inspiring hatred from the masses because of class jealousy, but in this case, that CEO is so clueless, he has brought it on himself by giving people a reason to actually know him by name, because he is such a doof), which means when he goes yachting (what a contrast to the Gulf Coast right now!) while his oil well is destroying an ecosystem, yeah he attarcts some notice. When the president -- who even the irrational masses know didn't cause the oil spill -- plays golf, it isn't any more of a story than any other non-story people want to use to find fault with a sitting president.

 

[YankeeFan]

YF: We all know your leanings, so to be fair, your own questions don't exactly spring from a foundation of intellectual honesty. Admit it. Your interests here lie in painting Obama in a bad light.

As to your questions:

1. I'm not sure there are any hard and fast standards for situations like this. Like Harry Blackmun (I believe) once famously said of pornography, you know it when you see it. And good PR certainly doesn't include jetting off to nice clean waters to enjoy a boat race, when your company has fouled thousands of square miles of beaches and water, depriving millions of others of both their livelihood and the chance to enjoy similar receational opportunities. And yeah, as head of the company that caused the problem, the standards certainly apply to Heyward.

2 and 3. Good PR move for Emanuel to attack Heyward? Absolutely. Pretty much a can't-miss situation when tone-deaf dolts like Heyward and his cohorts keep lobbing hanging sliders at you. And as for Obama's leisure activity: I think most Americans are intelligent enough to separate the two. We realize that even when he's on the golf course or at a Nats game, the President is still on duty. I don't think reasonable folks are going to begrudge the President his personal time, unless it's seen to be extreme.

I think questions 1 & 3 are fairly up to debate.

On question 2, I think it's an unmitigated error by Rahm to criticize Hayward. He should have known better, but he just couldn't help himself.

His criticism didn't help things and it only opened Obama up to similar criticism.

This is really a cardinal rule.

 

[sportsguydave]

YF: We all know your leanings, so to be fair, your own questions don't exactly spring from a foundation of intellectual honesty. Admit it. Your interests here lie in painting Obama in a bad light.

As to your questions:

1. I'm not sure there are any hard and fast standards for situations like this. Like Harry Blackmun (I believe) once famously said of pornography, you know it when you see it. And good PR certainly doesn't include jetting off to nice clean waters to enjoy a boat race, when your company has fouled thousands of square miles of beaches and water, depriving millions of others of both their livelihood and the chance to enjoy similar receational opportunities. And yeah, as head of the company that caused the problem, the standards certainly apply to Heyward.

2 and 3. Good PR move for Emanuel to attack Heyward? Absolutely. Pretty much a can't-miss situation when tone-deaf dolts like Heyward and his cohorts keep lobbing hanging sliders at you. And as for Obama's leisure activity: I think most Americans are intelligent enough to separate the two. We realize that even when he's on the golf course or at a Nats game, the President is still on duty. I don't think reasonable folks are going to begrudge the President his personal time, unless it's seen to be extreme.

I think questions 1 & 3 are fairly up to debate.

On question 2, I think it's an unmitigated error by Rahm to criticize Hayward. He should have known better, but he just couldn't help himself.

His criticism didn't help things and it only opened Obama up to similar criticism.

This is really a cardinal rule.

It opened Obama up to criticism mainly from the people who criticize him all day every day, anyway. Not much to be lost among that crowd.

 

[YankeeFan]

It opened Obama up to criticism mainly from the people who criticize him all day every day, anyway. Not much to be lost among that crowd.

Ragu & Dave, did you watch the Stewart clip?

Have you seen some of the jokes the late night talk show hosts have been telling?

How Obama is spending his time is already an issue -- and not just on FoxNews.

It's crossed over into the public consciousness when Comedy Central & the Tonight Show are making fun of him.

And this was all before this weekend.

Now, it will be an issue every time he plays golf or hosts some celebrity or team at the WH.

I'm not saying that one ball game or one round of golf is a crime, but they're adding up and people are paying attention.

And Rahm might not matter to most people, but when they play his clip next week on Meet the Press and ask some prominent Dem to comment on Obama's activities, the Dem is going to squirm.

And it's Rahm who will have contributed to the press going after Obama in this vein because of his comments. It doesn't matter if 99% of the public doesn't know who he is.

The press knows who he is and he's given the press fuel for their fire.

 

[sportsguydave]

It opened Obama up to criticism mainly from the people who criticize him all day every day, anyway. Not much to be lost among that crowd.

Ragu & Dave, did you watch the Stewart clip?

Have you seen some of the jokes the late night talk show hosts have been telling?

How Obama is spending his time is already an issue -- and not just on FoxNews.

It's crossed over into the public consciousness when Comedy Central & the Tonight Show are making fun of him.

And this was all before this weekend.

Now, it will be an issue every time he plays golf or hosts some celebrity or team at the WH.

I'm not saying that one ball game or one round of golf is a crime, but they're adding up and people are paying attention.

And Rahm might not matter to most people, but when they play his clip next week on Meet the Press and ask some prominent Dem to comment on Obama's activities, the Dem is going to squirm.

And it's Rahm who will have contributed to the press going after Obama in this vein because of his comments. It doesn't matter if 99% of the public doesn't know who he is.

The press knows who he is and he's given the press fuel for their fire.

With all due respect, YF, I think you're putting just a bit too much hopin'/wishin' into this.

Late-night talk show hosts and the Jon Stewarts of the world get much of their material from the president - whether it's a Democrat or Republican. Clinton got beat up by the Lettermans and Lenos for most of the second half of his second term. And when all was said and done, Clinton left office with pretty darn high approval ratings.

Obama's turn was going to come eventually.

Frankly, YF, this is a tempest in a teapot, despite your best efforts to make more out of it. The only folks who really care about this are the foaming-at-the-mouth, hate-Obama right and the chattering class in Washington, who can't exist without ginning up phony inside-the-Beltway controversies on a regular basis.

 

[Flying Headbutt]

Fact of the matter is YF is going to take his shots at Obama every chance he gets. And no matter how false and misguided the analogies he wants to make are, he's going to try to make some of you argue against them, whether there is legitimacy or not. If you want to play the game, fine. There are times he's well-meaning and all, but when an issue even drifts near the political sphere, his default mode is find a way to criticize Obama and then come up with some nonsense to argue over. Later he'll have Joe Barton apologize.

 

[Point of Order]

Just saw video of Obama on the driving range and, no, he shouldn't be golfing. It has nothing to do with the oil spill, though. His swing is awful.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

Chris Wallace just made the very point that I did -- that Obama is just as guilty by playing golf.

You mean the Fox News Chris Wallace? Shocking that he'd have that take. And, no, it is not the same thing, because there is that pesky little matter of fault. Neither Obama nor anyone under his charge caused this disaster, the same can't be said for Hayward.

The boss of the company at fault jetting off for the frickin yacht races right now strikes me as quite a bit more calloused, and insanely stupid PR-wise, than Obama taking in a round of golf.

Wallace had a long career at both ABC & NBC before joining FoxNews. He's no right wing fire breather.

A "fire-breather"? Like Slush or Dreck? Talk about low hurdles.

CW's always been right of center. So was daddy, and the apple
didn't fall that far from the tree. It's a wonder it took FOX so long
to snap him up.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

Drudge Headline:

BP CEO GOES SAILING
OBAMA GOES GOLFING

Not great PR for the White House.

It's Drudge, YF. Nobody cares. When Drudge falls out of bed, it's Obama's fault. Anybody who's paying attention knows his agenda. But thanks for playing the false equivalency game. Pick up your lovely parting gifts on the way out. :)

Back page of the New York Post this morning, huge "Captain Clueless" headline with photo of the BP CEO.

Of course the story of the day had nothing to do with Obama. And that is the gauge.

The NY Post will trip all over itself to take a shot at Obama if it can, and him playing golf was a non-story to anyone not stretching themselves farther than even the Post will to try to make every story into a strained indictment of Obama (Apparently Matt Drudge and YF form that club).

The populist story of the day (the NY Post will tell you the populist story of the day if it's a national story) was the **** CEO whose company caused an oil spill, and who has displayed just how out of touch with the world he is and just how sheltered the lives of most Fortune 500 CEO's are.

And YF, few people know who Rahm Emanuel is or give two ****s about what he has to say. Even if they did know who he is, Rahm Emanuel poking fun at the BP CEO sparks zero outrage right now. That CEO is about the easiest target on the planet right now.

No matter how much opinion of Obama has suffered over this whole thing, even the people who expect him to personally clean the oil spill with a wet-dry vac by next week have way greater contempt for BP and this CEO (FWIW, the CEO is inspiring hatred from the masses because of class jealousy, but in this case, that CEO is so clueless, he has brought it on himself by giving people a reason to actually know him by name, because he is such a doof), which means when he goes yachting (what a contrast to the Gulf Coast right now!) while his oil well is destroying an ecosystem, yeah he attarcts some notice. When the president -- who even the irrational masses know didn't cause the oil spill -- plays golf, it isn't any more of a story than any other non-story people want to use to find fault with a sitting president.

There's no need to even ring in the "class jealousy" card, here . . . not
while Tony Hayward remains such an oblivious, haughty, "Not MEEEEEEEEEE" bubble-boy.

 

[YankeeFan]

A "fire-breather"? Like Slush or Dreck? Talk about low hurdles.

CW's always been right of center. So was daddy, and the apple
didn't fall that far from the tree. It's a wonder it took FOX so long
to snap him up.

Wallace was raised by his step-father & didn't have much of a relationship with his father until he was an adult.

And does anybody want to guess what topic has received a lot of attention on Rush today?

Answer: Obama's leisure time.

 

[Azrael]

Fact of the matter is YF is going to take his shots at Obama every chance he gets. And no matter how false and misguided the analogies he wants to make are, he's going to try to make some of you argue against them, whether there is legitimacy or not. If you want to play the game, fine. There are times he's well-meaning and all, but when an issue even drifts near the political sphere, his default mode is find a way to criticize Obama and then come up with some nonsense to argue over. Later he'll have Joe Barton apologize.

A "fire-breather"? Like Slush or Dreck? Talk about low hurdles.

CW's always been right of center. So was daddy, and the apple
didn't fall that far from the tree. It's a wonder it took FOX so long
to snap him up.

Wallace was raised by his step-father & didn't have much of a relationship with his father until he was an adult.

And does anybody want to guess what topic has received a lot of attention on Rush today?

Answer: Obama's leisure time.

No politics.

 

[Hank_Scorpio]

Yea, Rush doesn't have an agenda or anything.


You're a little overboard with this YF. I mean, I'm not the biggest Obama supporter and I see vast differences in Heyward yachting and Obama golfing. Obama golfing is really a non-story, as it should be.

 

[YankeeFan]

No politics.

Shut the **** up. What are you, the quality control monitor?

 

[Armchair_QB]

I've said consistently that the President of the United States - be it George Bush, Barack Obama or anyone else who occupies the White House - is NEVER on vacation. Anyone who opines otherwise is just looking to score cheap political points.

That said, it is a PR blunder of epic proportions for Obama to send his pet attack thug out to rip the BP CEO for his leisure time activities the same weekend Obama is off playing golf somewhere.

For a guy who is portrayed as a genius Obama's got some pretty stupid ****ing people advising him on PR matters.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

A "fire-breather"? Like Slush or Dreck? Talk about low hurdles.

CW's always been right of center. So was daddy, and the apple
didn't fall that far from the tree. It's a wonder it took FOX so long
to snap him up.

Wallace was raised by his step-father & didn't have much of a relationship with his father until he was an adult.

And does anybody want to guess what topic has received a lot of attention on Rush today?

Answer: Obama's leisure time.

None of which absolves CW's sustained record of apologetic,
obfuscating, quasi-reporting, which peaked during the grotesque W years
from what I've seen. Creampuff questions to righties, his specialty.