AL Cy Young?

[Knighthawk]

I've seen Verlander pitch all season, and he's been great ... but there's no question it is Greinke.

 

[outofplace]

For the record, Greinke just tossed a 1-hit shutout at Seattle.

That the Royals scrounged up three runs in support notwithstanding.

His two dominant starts this week certainly went a long way toward strengthening his case. He dropped his ERA to 2.32.

As I said on the other thread, he's still only got 13 wins. He'll have to win 17-18 to clinch the Cy, especially if someone like Sabathia or Verlander wins 20.

That is possible, though it shouldn't happen. Greinke leads the AL with a 2.32 ERA. Right now Verlander's is 3.38 (6th) and Sabathia's is 3.56 (7th). Felix Hernandez is second with a 2.77 ERA, so Greinke is nearly a half a run lower than everybody else.

Besides, those 13 wins are currently only one fewer than Verlander and two fewer than Sabathia despite both of them playing for vastly superior teams. Verlander does have a small edge in strikeouts, 211-202.

Things may change over the final month, but Greinke has been the superior pitcher to this point.

Totally agree, but what's right and how the writers vote are often two entirely different things ...

And Verlander's got 15 wins now (he won today).

My bad. I forgot that he pitched today. His ERA is still more than a run higher than Greinke's at 3.38, but he does have 15 wins and 215 strikeouts (I had it at 14 and 211 above).

 

[YGBFKM]

Seemed like a decent argument I heard on the radio tonight: Greinke's pitching on a last-place team under no pressure to win, whereas as Sabbathia and Verlander are pitching for first-place teams in pennant races. Should that matter?

Of course, Greinke faces a different kind of pressure each time out: knowing that if he gives up three runs, he's likely gonna lose.

 

[outofplace]

Seemed like a decent argument I heard on the radio tonight: Greinke's pitching on a last-place team under no pressure to win, whereas as Sabbathia and Verlander are pitching for first-place teams in pennant races. Should that matter?

Of course, Greinke faces a different kind of pressure each time out: knowing that if he gives up three runs, he's likely gonna lose.

I think that last bit answers your own question. Greinke knows he's not going to get much help, so he can't let up even a little bit. Also, part of the reason that team is so bad is the defense behind him.

Sabathia and Verlander are already getting credit for playing for better teams. It shows up in their win totals.

 

[Steak Snabler]

Seemed like a decent argument I heard on the radio tonight: Greinke's pitching on a last-place team under no pressure to win, whereas as Sabbathia and Verlander are pitching for first-place teams in pennant races. Should that matter?

Of course, Greinke faces a different kind of pressure each time out: knowing that if he gives up three runs, he's likely gonna lose.

Not only that, but Sabathia knows how to win. [/joe morgan]

 

[kingcreole]

Seemed like a decent argument I heard on the radio tonight: Greinke's pitching on a last-place team under no pressure to win, whereas as Sabbathia and Verlander are pitching for first-place teams in pennant races. Should that matter?

Of course, Greinke faces a different kind of pressure each time out: knowing that if he gives up three runs, he's likely gonna lose.

On the other hand, Greinke has nothing to pitch for. He was at his best in April and May when Kansas City was actually on top in the standings. Greinke is (probably) no different than any other pitcher in that he wants to win. Not just himself, but the team. If Kansas City was contending, it's possible his numbers would be even better.

Of course, they could be worse. No way of knowing. It's certainly not his fault the Royals suck any more than Verlander or Sabathia deserve all the praise for their teams contending.

 

[YGBFKM]

Seemed like a decent argument I heard on the radio tonight: Greinke's pitching on a last-place team under no pressure to win, whereas as Sabbathia and Verlander are pitching for first-place teams in pennant races. Should that matter?

Of course, Greinke faces a different kind of pressure each time out: knowing that if he gives up three runs, he's likely gonna lose.

On the other hand, Greinke has nothing to pitch for. He was at his best in April and May when Kansas City was actually on top in the standings. Greinke is (probably) no different than any other pitcher in that he wants to win. Not just himself, but the team. If Kansas City was contending, it's possible his numbers would be even better.

Of course, they could be worse. No way of knowing. It's certainly not his fault the Royals suck any more than Verlander or Sabathia deserve all the praise for their teams contending.

Part of the argument was that Greinke might not be able to pitch in a pressure-packed environment given his well-known struggles. Of course, that's just speculation. I happen to think it's a valid concern if it ever comes about, but it shouldn't affect the CY voting because it's just a what if scenario.

 

[BB Bobcat]

Greinke can definitely win, despite his record and thecteam he pitches for. I thing Greinke's 09 is similar to Lincecum's 08. He won quite handily.

The voters aren't as shallow as some of you think. One of them is sleeping with my wife :)

 

[Diabeetus]

Greinke now leads the AL in ERA, ERA+, shutouts, complete games, WHIP, HRs/9 and is second in strikeouts and Ks/BB. It's not close.

 

[Big Circus]

Greinke can definitely win, despite his record and thecteam he pitches for. I thing Greinke's 09 is similar to Lincecum's 08. He won quite handily.

The voters aren't as shallow as some of you think. One of them is sleeping with my wife :)

Why are you posting on here and not beating his ass right now?!? :D

 

[Oz]

Great, great week. At this point, the question shouldn't be, Can Greinke win the Cy Young? It should be, Why shouldn't he?

 

[YGBFKM]

Because he doesn't play for a winning team?

 

[Oz]

Because he doesn't play for a winning team?

If this were an MVP discussion, that would be covered. But given how the Cy Young is supposed to go to the best pitcher, period, that shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Gues#t]

Not to put too fine a point on it...have any of you mavens checked out the M's lineup that Grienke was pitching against?

The kid was nails, but this performance shouldn't put him over the top. The oppo was too weak.

He's on his way, but he's not there yet

 

[YGBFKM]

It was a joke, Oz, related to the whole Mauer MVP discussion.

 

[buckweaver]

Not to put too fine a point on it...have any of you mavens checked out the M's lineup that Grienke was pitching against?

The kid was nails, but this performance shouldn't put him over the top. The oppo was too weak.

He's on his way, but he's not there yet

Ahh, so YOU'RE the one who's wondering about Greinke not facing Yanks/Sox? Gotcha.

 

[Oz]

It was a joke, Oz, related to the whole Mauer MVP discussion.

D'oh. Sorry about that, I just read right through it.

Not to put too fine a point on it...have any of you mavens checked out the M's lineup that Grienke was pitching against?

The kid was nails, but this performance shouldn't put him over the top. The oppo was too weak.

He's on his way, but he's not there yet

Imagine if Greinke got to pitch against the Royals' lineup. I know Hernandez has been the victim of poor run support in Seattle, but statistically, Greinke's had the worst run support among all AL starting pitchers this season.

 

[BYH]

Greinke hasn't faced the Twins either. How can you even consider him for Cy Young when he ducks the Yankees' nine MVP candidates as well as Mauer?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=greinza01&t=p&year=2009

I think Ricky Romero should win it.

 

[kingcreole]

Not to put too fine a point on it...have any of you mavens checked out the M's lineup that Grienke was pitching against?

The kid was nails, but this performance shouldn't put him over the top. The oppo was too weak.

He's on his way, but he's not there yet

So I guess Jon Lester's no-hitter last year shouldn't really count because he no-hit a bunch of Kansas City bums. ::) ::) ::)

 

[Gues#t]

Not to put too fine a point on it...have any of you mavens checked out the M's lineup that Grienke was pitching against?

The kid was nails, but this performance shouldn't put him over the top. The oppo was too weak.

He's on his way, but he's not there yet

Ahh, so YOU'RE the one who's wondering about Greinke not facing Yanks/Sox? Gotcha.

No, buck, that was someone else. I'm just someone who watched the game, saw a couple of balls hit hard early, and that was that. Johjima's hit was a parachute job, Sweeney had a couple of lineouts to the outfield...well, read the game account if you haven't already.

Ichiro, Jr. and Beltre, all out injured. The M's were a light hitting team with their most experienced hitter's down. Lopez was in there, but he doesn't hit in the Safe the way he does on the road.

As I wrote, the kid pitched well. He mixed up his pitches, his curve was breaking and his fastball was still around 95-96 late. Good for him. But never mind the Yankees and Sox; when he one-hits the Angels, I'll be much more impressed.

PS: As far as I'm concerned, Grienke's the AL CY leader, but he's nowhere near the clubhouse.