A Rod to Miami?

[MankyJimy]

It looks like ARod is spent. I wouldn't be surprised if he retires after this season (it's got to be humiliating to be a $25M/year player and get pinch hit for in a playoff game).

Where does ARod rank among the greatest player of all time?

Among players from his era I would put him behind Jeter, Chipper Jones, Thome, Pujols, and Bonds. If I were to make a list he would probably fall just outside the top 50 all time.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Re: The ARod question

He is not behind Jeter, Chipper, or Thome.

 

[MankyJimy]

Re: The ARod question

He is not behind Jeter, Chipper, or Thome.

Just based on stats alone I see what you're saying. I would like to see a number of how many of Road's HRs had no impact on the game and were merely stat padding.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Re: The ARod question

He is behind Raul Ibanez.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Re: The ARod question

Statistically, he's one of the best players of all-time, but he will be known as someone who just could not bring it come the postseason. I know he has a ring, but I don't think that matters to too many people.

How many future Hall-of-Famers have been pinch-hit for in that situation? Not only did I laugh when it happened, but I laughed even harder when the move paid off...

 

[RickStain]

Re: The ARod question

Statistically, he's one of the best players of all-time, but he will be known as someone who just could not bring it come the postseason. I know he has a ring, but I don't think that matters to too many people.

That's because those people dislike his attitude and contract and aren't afraid to dishonestly bend the facts to make their case, for the most part.

He brought it in the postseason at a rate nearly indistiguishable from the rate he brought it in the regular season. If anyone wants to insist that the 1 total base per 30 at-bats difference in his SLG percentage is pivotal, I'll listen. But anything else is just cherry-picking.

 

[Double Down]

Re: The ARod question

Where does he rank is less interesting to me than "Where do we go from here?" I'm really curious to see what the Yankees do with him after next season. There is absolutely no way he retires with $115 million still owed to him. (God, it's stunning to type that.) He'll be in pinstripes for another season, probably hitting sixth or seventh for the entire year, and then it will get interesting. Does he DH for a full season? Can you pay $20 million a year of his deal and ship him somewhere else, with another team picking up the $7 million to $10 million he's still owed each year? Could he re-energize himself in the National League, where the pitching just isn't as good? Is there a chance he juices again because he just can't take the shame of being this bad?

 

[Dick Whitman]

Re: The ARod question

I will say this about him, and maybe it's been addressed on the postseason thread: He handled last night about as well as he could have possibly handled it. And he wasn't just spouting the right cliches, either. He sounded genuine, particularly in admitting that six or seven years ago, he would have been pissed.

 

[cranberry]

Re: The ARod question

The Yankees should trade ARod to Pittsburgh and pay 90 percent of his salary, just so we can hear OOP tell us that $3 million is too much for the Pirates to pay one player.

 

[RickStain]

Re: The ARod question

Where does he rank is less interesting to me than "Where do we go from here?" I'm really curious to see what the Yankees do with him after next season. There is absolutely no way he retires with $115 million still owed to him. (God, it's stunning to type that.) He'll be in pinstripes for another season, probably hitting sixth or seventh for the entire year, and then it will get interesting. Does he DH for a full season? Can you pay $20 million a year of his deal and ship him somewhere else, with another team picking up the $7 million to $10 million he's still owed each year? Could he re-energize himself in the National League, where the pitching just isn't as good? Is there a chance he juices again because he just can't take the shame of being this bad?

Agreed with all this. He has not aged nearly as well as hoped (a common theme coming up in the possibly PED-light era?), and he's becoming a problem.

This year, he was down to a .783 OPS in a hitter's park. League average for a 3b is .740 (where his defensive skills probably give some of it back) and for a DH is .758. He basically a slightly above average player right now, and with the risk of his skills further eroding each year. The Yankees can afford to eat the money, but they aren't in the business of fielding below-average players in starting roles, and he's in real danger of becoming that as soon as next season.

As far as trading him somewhere and sending along money, aren't there rules about how quickly that has to be resolved? I don't think you can just promise to cut a check for $20 million every year for five years to pay his salary.

And they definitely don't like him enough to pretend nothing is wrong.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Re: The ARod question

He's not retiring. He cares about the money and the records and he's probably hoping that another ring or two will make people forget that his game goes down a level in the postseason.

 

[RickStain]

Re: The ARod question

He's not retiring. He cares about the money and the records and he's probably hoping that another ring or two will make people forget that his game goes down a level in the postseason.

Except when it doesn't.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Re: The ARod question

I will say this about him, and maybe it's been addressed on the postseason thread: He handled last night about as well as he could have possibly handled it. And he wasn't just spouting the right cliches, either. He sounded genuine, particularly in admitting that six or seven years ago, he would have been pissed.

True... He's smart enough to know that acting anything other than thrilled after last night would make him look like a complete douche. I think he was genuine, but that had to have stung.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Re: The ARod question

He's not retiring. He cares about the money and the records and he's probably hoping that another ring or two will make people forget that his game goes down a level in the postseason.

Except when it doesn't.

Right... Because it's commonplace to pinch-hit for a three-time MVP in the playoffs. I know he's not in his prime anymore, but still...

It's not to say he's always terrible in the playoffs, he was great in the ALDS and ALCS in 2009, but his batting averages in the last several playoff series since are:
.250 in the 2009 World Series
.273 in the 2010 ALDS
.190 in the 2010 ALCS
.111 in the 2011 ALDS
.083 in the 2012 ALDS

 

[Sam Mills 51]

Re: The ARod question

It's not to say he's always terrible in the playoffs, he was great in the ALDS and ALCS in 2009, but his batting averages in the last several playoff series since are:
.250 in the 2009 World Series
.273 in the 2010 ALDS
.190 in the 2010 ALCS
.111 in the 2011 ALDS
.083 in the 2012 ALDS

Wonder if this will make Scott Boras' next binder?

 

[RickStain]

Re: The ARod question

Right... Because it's commonplace to pinch-hit for a three-time MVP in the playoffs. I know he's not in his prime anymore, but still...

Still what? He's not in his prime anymore and that's that.

.250 in the 2009 World Series
.273 in the 2010 ALDS
.190 in the 2010 ALCS
.111 in the 2011 ALDS
.083 in the 2012 ALDS

Mantle had a stretch of .167, .120. .133. It happens.

If we're using batting average, Jeter never had a stretch of consecutive bad series like this, but he hit .250 or lower in 11 of his 33 postseason series, or 33%. Rodriguez did the same in 6 of his 15, or 40%. A difference of exactly one series.

 

[Armchair_QB]

Re: The ARod question

Jeter wishes he was half the player ARod is.

 

[Boom_70]

Re: The ARod question

You should be able to look at a ball player and see that they are a gamer. I've watched A Rod a lot and he has never struck me as one. As example you watch David Ortiz in big situations and you know he will make something happen most time. I've never felt that way about A Rod. When a game is on the line A Rod has never been the type of player that says it's on me.

 

[RickStain]

Re: The ARod question

You should be able to look at a ball player and see that they are a gamer. I've watched A Rod a lot and he has never struck me as one. As example you watch David Ortiz in big situations and you know he will make something happen most time. I've never felt that way about A Rod. When a game is on the line A Rod has never been the type of player that says it's on me.

The arrogance of assuming one's own feelings are the true reality.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Re: The ARod question

Where does he rank is less interesting to me than "Where do we go from here?" I'm really curious to see what the Yankees do with him after next season. There is absolutely no way he retires with $115 million still owed to him. (God, it's stunning to type that.) He'll be in pinstripes for another season, probably hitting sixth or seventh for the entire year, and then it will get interesting. Does he DH for a full season? Can you pay $20 million a year of his deal and ship him somewhere else, with another team picking up the $7 million to $10 million he's still owed each year? Could he re-energize himself in the National League, where the pitching just isn't as good? Is there a chance he juices again because he just can't take the shame of being this bad?

Agreed with all this. He has not aged nearly as well as hoped (a common theme coming up in the possibly PED-light era?), and he's becoming a problem.

This year, he was down to a .783 OPS in a hitter's park. League average for a 3b is .740 (where his defensive skills probably give some of it back) and for a DH is .758. He basically a slightly above average player right now, and with the risk of his skills further eroding each year. The Yankees can afford to eat the money, but they aren't in the business of fielding below-average players in starting roles, and he's in real danger of becoming that as soon as next season.

As far as trading him somewhere and sending along money, aren't there rules about how quickly that has to be resolved? I don't think you can just promise to cut a check for $20 million every year for five years to pay his salary.

And they definitely don't like him enough to pretend nothing is wrong.

This is going to be very interesting to watch in the next few years with him, Pujols, Fielder and some lesser guys (Torii Hunter, Carl Crawford). I don't think annual salaries are going down, but teams are going to have to start looking at whether they really want to tack on the extra years to win the bidding.