A Hodgepodge of questions from a soon-to-be graduate....

[silvershadow1981]

Morning guys and gals, I'm posting this because I have a bunch of questions that are running through my mind as the calendar turns to 2007. This springs semester coming up marks my final one as an undergrad student, and obviously the time has come to start applying for jobs in our chosen profession. I've sent my clips, resume and references to three papers that had openings on this very board (four overall) and have gotten one response, and that was in the form of a company post card. So with my hand perilously close to the panic button, I ask you fine pros for sage advice and or suggestions;

1. Is it really a bad idea to have your college clips as a part of your package? I was sports editor of the campus newspaper the last four years, concluding this month (my choice to step aside), and I had one sports reporting internship at the local daily in the summer of 2005, just to outline my experience. According to a friend of mine (who isn't a sportswriter), "Nobody wants to see college clips this late in the game."

2. Am I even applying too early? I'm quite sure folks want their positions filled ASAP, but a mentor of mine suggested sending my stuff out six months in advance of graduation, which means I've been at it for a little over a month now.

3. If I am applying to early, when is a good timetable? May 20th will be here before I know it, and I don't plan on lingering around home too long, if at all.

4. What is the standard waiting time for contacting newspapers if you haven't heard anything from them regarding your package? I've heard anywhere from a week up to a month.

5. If you don't hear anything back after an e-mail, phone call, etc., should you just chalk it up and move on?

6. Did you guys ever panic when you were applying for jobs and such? This process is freaking me out and it just started. I'm just determined to start this career that I love and move away from home that I'm starting to think about scenarios I don't even want to think about.

Long as hell, I know, but I'll be grateful and appreciative for any advice or suggestions you all may have. Thanks.

 

[jgmacg]

 

[Ace]

Morning guys and gals, I'm posting this because I have a bunch of questions that are running through my mind as the calendar turns to 2007. This springs semester coming up marks my final one as an undergrad student, and obviously the time has come to start applying for jobs in our chosen profession. I've sent my clips, resume and references to three papers that had openings on this very board (four overall) and have gotten one response, and that was in the form of a company post card. So with my hand perilously close to the panic button, I ask you fine pros for sage advice and or suggestions;

1. Is it really a bad idea to have your college clips as a part of your package? I was sports editor of the campus newspaper the last four years, concluding this month (my choice to step aside), and I had one sports reporting internship at the local daily in the summer of 2005, just to outline my experience. According to a friend of mine (who isn't a sportswriter), "Nobody wants to see college clips this late in the game."

2. Am I even applying too early? I'm quite sure folks want their positions filled ASAP, but a mentor of mine suggested sending my stuff out six months in advance of graduation, which means I've been at it for a little over a month now.

3. If I am applying to early, when is a good timetable? May 20th will be here before I know it, and I don't plan on lingering around home too long, if at all.

4. What is the standard waiting time for contacting newspapers if you haven't heard anything from them regarding your package? I've heard anywhere from a week up to a month.

5. If you don't hear anything back after an e-mail, phone call, etc., should you just chalk it up and move on?

6. Did you guys ever panic when you were applying for jobs and such? This process is freaking me out and it just started. I'm just determined to start this career that I love and move away from home that I'm starting to think about scenarios I don't even want to think about.

Long as hell, I know, but I'll be grateful and appreciative for any advice or suggestions you all may have. Thanks.

1. No, provided they are good clips.

2. No. Couldn't hurt. But don't apply for specific jobs. Just send them a package to let them know you are soon-to-be available.

3. N/A

4. How many are you going to send out? If you have applied for a specific job that was posted, I would check back via email in about two weeks to see if there are any questions, etc.

5. If you have tried more than once and they don't get back, move on, unless it is your dream job or something and you may want to send a follow-up packet down the road to let them know you are still interested.

6. Yes. I hate even updating my resume.

 

[Sunshine Scooter]

1. College clips are OK, but make sure it's something worthy and not just your run-of-the-mill game story. Big feature.
If you were the SE and have some design clips, include those as well. You're probably only going to get serious looks from smaller papers, where design often is part of your job duty. Show some versatility. Editors like that.

2. Six months is a bit soon. I actually had a job lined up before I graduated college, but the stress of graduation plus the impending job nearly killed me. Things started heating up about 2-3 months before graduation, so I'd send out e-mails around then.
As an aside, don't be too quick to jump right into the work force. I'm sure you've heard it already, but don't underestimate the value of having a month or two where you don't have to work or go to school. Hell, mooch off your parents for a little while longer.

3. Start around March 1.

4. One or two weeks. Just because you don't hear back, don't panic. You wouldn't believe how long the hiring process can take sometimes. Follow up after two weeks, then after another week. After that, if the paper's interested, they'll call you.

5. Typically, yes. You don't want to overwhelm an editor with calls, e-mails. That gets annoying.

6. Relax, it's not the end of the world. There are plenty of jobs out there. Not all of them are necessarily good, or for you. Be patient, and be flexible. When you find the paper you like, do whatever you have to do to get an interview. If it's close, offer to drive there and do it when it's convenient for them.

 

[fishwrapper]

1. Go back to school and get a MBA.
2. See above.
3. See above.
4. See above.
5. See above.
6. See above.

 

[Bob Cook]

Morning guys and gals, I'm posting this because I have a bunch of questions that are running through my mind as the calendar turns to 2007. This springs semester coming up marks my final one as an undergrad student, and obviously the time has come to start applying for jobs in our chosen profession. I've sent my clips, resume and references to three papers that had openings on this very board (four overall) and have gotten one response, and that was in the form of a company post card. So with my hand perilously close to the panic button, I ask you fine pros for sage advice and or suggestions;

1. Is it really a bad idea to have your college clips as a part of your package? If that's what you've got, go with what you got. I used college clips early on. The key is narrowing it down to your best five or six items, max, with a mix of breaking news and features.

2. Am I even applying too early? It depends on where you're applying. As a hiring editor (not sports) I don't keep a stack of resumes -- I start from scratch with every hire. I've never gotten a job in which my resume was picked out of a file -- it was when my resume arrived as someone was actually looking. However, it's not a bad idea to use whatever contacts you have to scope for what might be happening over the next six months. You can start with your local daily, because you at least know people there.

3. If I am applying to early, when is a good timetable? There's no hard-and-fast timetable. It is possible, if an editor is sifting through resumes for fun or in anticipation of an opening, to get the top of the list early. But you should reapply if know a position has been posted.

4. What is the standard waiting time for contacting newspapers if you haven't heard anything from them regarding your package? One follow-up phone call or email is good to confirm your information arrived. I would give it a week to 10 days. Any longer, people might forget you ever sent it.

5. If you don't hear anything back after an e-mail, phone call, etc., should you just chalk it up and move on? Yes. While editors love reporters who are dogged in their pursuit of answers, that doesn't necessarily apply to job-seekers dogged in their pursuit of editors who have enough to do without hearing from every graduating college student in the land. You could always send an email a month into it asking for any followup, including a note saying you'd appreciate some follow-up on why you might not have been considered. Someone might take you up on that and help you a little bit.

6. Did you guys ever panic when you were applying for jobs and such? The thing I've seen people panic about is that they didn't get the exact job they wanted out of the gate. Plenty of people who have gone on to big things have started in small places. If you're great at what you do, you'll eventually get noticed. Job-hunting (when you don't already have a job) is extremely stressful, and the trick is not showing that stress to prospective employers.

 

[thebiglead]

1. Go back to school and get a MBA.
2. See above.
3. See above.
4. See above.
5. See above.
6. See above.

Actually been pondering that MBA in recent weeks, for when-I'm-45 purposes. Talked to a professor who said that whether you want teach at Podunk U or Columbia, you'll need an MBA. What I didn't get around to asking was, 'does it matter from where?'

Got the experience in newspapers/magazines, got the BLOG! just curious if I should just get the CUNY MBA, or actually pay for a good one.

 

[Dale Cooper]

One thing you should definitely be doing right now -- and get on it fast -- is applying for summer internships. After I graduated, I did not have a job, but I bided my time at a paper with a fairly-impressive name -- whether it was an impressive operation is another story -- and it certainly served as another feather in my cap on my way to landing my first job, which came in the middle of that summer. Any place will let you duck out on an internship for a full-time job. Hiring parties also will like that you have been working and staying sharp. Looks a lot better than if you've been sitting at home, trying to freelance -- something you'll undoubtedly have trouble doing in the summer.

That said, you should still keep applying for jobs. But, if one does not come along, or if the right one does not come along, a summer internship is an excellent plan B.

 

[fishwrapper]

MBA=Masters of Business Administration
Meaning, forget journalism.

 

[SockPuppet]

I think you need to try and personalize your attempts.
Depending on the area of the country you're in, you need to check out an APSE regional meeting. It's worth the time and expense to attend, meet and greet. You'll have a much better chance of landing a job if someone remembers you AND your clips, not just another of the 100s of clips/applications that cross their desk.
Also, be flexible. If you're serious about the biz _ and God bless ya _ then you need to accept the fact you will probably start at the very bottom _ on the desk, being an agate clerk, covering preps (if you're lucky). If you wind up in a non-writing job and you want to write, volunteer on your own time for any writing assignment you can. Resign yourself to the fact that you might have to work 60 or 80 hour weeks (without OT) in order to move up.
Good luck.

 

[devils_claw]

1. Is it really a bad idea to have your college clips as a part of your package?
No. Go with what's your best work. Even if it's a crappy story with a big name in the folio, it's still a crappy story. Now, if it's between two good stories, go with the one that isn't the college paper--but you want everything in your clips to be the best you've got.

2. Am I even applying too early?
I would say yes. No one is going to hold an opening for six months. Read the postings, get a feel for what's out there, try to make contacts but don't worry about applying yet.

3. If I am applying to early, when is a good timetable?
I would say a month and a half or two months before graduation is your best bet.

4. What is the standard waiting time for contacting newspapers if you haven't heard anything from them regarding your package?
Probably about 10 days. Gives them time to actually recieve everything, wait for other candidates, have a life that doesn't revolve around the opening.

5. If you don't hear anything back after an e-mail, phone call, etc., should you just chalk it up and move on?
Yes.

6. Did you guys ever panic when you were applying for jobs and such?
Absolutely.

 

[sartrean]

I have to agree with fishwrapper here.

You need a master's degree in this day and age. Doesn't matter what, but you need an advanced degree.

Newspapers would be oogling you if you had an MBA and a Juris Doctor in addition to a BA in journalism. Of course, you'd never be able to pay back your schools.

You don't need a job right now, other than another internship over the summer. You need to stay in school while you're still in that mode of living and get an advanced degree in something.

Or you could sign on at the first weekly that hires you for $18K a year. It's great experience, but after say 10 years of the small paper rotation, you may reach the $25K threshhold.

 

[SilvioDante]

Why would newspapers care if someone had an MBA? That's a serious question.

 

[sartrean]

MBAs w/ a journalism BA have an inside track into newspaper management.

And recent graduates with an MBA or a MA or MS or JD stand a better chance of getting a job in any field than the graduate that has a ****-ant BA in journalism.

Earning potential is better for MBAs and people with advanced degrees. And that's a serious response.

 

[SilvioDante]

Cool. Thanks. What I meant was that I wasn't trying to doubt the person who said it, since tone doesn't translate too well.

 

[murciélago]

It's funny to me how easily y'all throw around a JD ... like, you know, just roll into school for a few days and get an advanced degree in law so you can be a better newspaper manager. Sure. No problem.

 

[fishwrapper]

No one said it was easy, muricelago. But, if you really want to be in the business, and perhaps have a home and family at some point, a degree from State hardly cuts it anymore. That doesn't say great experience and skill doesn't shine. But, there are more graduates than positions, these days.
I know, I see the dozens of clips and portfolios Fed-Exed each week.

 

[SilvioDante]

Does an MBA at a good school earned part-time while still working carry as much currency as a full-time one? I have a couple of top 20 business schools in weekend/evening driving distance, and it would be nice to work on that while I'm still earning during the week writing news/sports.

Or is an MBA earned part-time the associates degree of the business world?

 

[STLIrish]

1: No. Go with your best work. Where it ran is less important than how good it is.
2: Don't apply for specific openings. They're not going to wait 6 months for you to show up. But send stuff out now, ask for feedback and get on their radar screens. If you can, visit the places you really want to work in the mean time.
3: See above. Maybe start applying for actual openings a month or two before you get out of school.
4: Give them at least a couple of weeks, probably three, then e-mail to "check in and see if" they got it.
5: Yes.
6: Job-hunting in this business involves a lot of banging your head against closed doors. And if you let it get to you it can be really stressful. But don't take it personally. There are probably dozens of other kids just like you trying to get the attention of every paper you're talking to. But the more you can do to stand out, or give them a face to put with the name, the better off you are. And if you do that and keep plugging (and can write), you'll find something.

As for the advanced degree question, I don't know too many writer/reporter types with an MBA, or a JD for that matter, but it doesn't seem like a bad idea if you want to get into management and rescue this business from itself.
The problem with those degrees is paying the loans. I have a (much cheaper) masters' in a non-journalism subject that I kind of cover (I'm a news-sider). It definitely helps me get noticed by prospective employers, and even helps me do my job some days. I'd recommend that route if you can swing it financially/personally, etc., but I'm not sure it has as much value for sportswriters.

 

[sartrean]

To clarify my earlier posts, I only suggested advanced degrees for the journalism job-seeker because it's quite obvious that journalism is a field that just doesn't pay.

How can recent graduates repay their loans on some of the paltry salaries out there for reporters? I remember my first year in this business. I put in 100-110 hour weeks, easy. I remember not really ever having a day off until my third or fourth year as a reporter. But that was nearly two a decades ago, when hard work was noticed more, and sometimes rewarded.

Today, it may be noticed, but there is no room for advancement in this industry, and if there is, then it involves doing more and more responsibility and scant pay increases.

I mentioned that a JD or MBA for the job-seeker because that's what college seniors should be thinking about -- not working at a newspaper. They need to get out there and earn a real paycheck so they can pay back the bank for all those years of swilling beer and banging coeds.

Seriously, with a JD, anyone can write their own ticket in almost any field or industry. Several TV news anchors on cable and the networks have JDs. You know they're knocking down the big bucks, while a production assistant behind the scenes, with his or her BA in journalism in hand, is knocking down maybe $32K if they're lucky.

At the big city daily down the road, the ombudsman has an MBA and a JD, and from what I've been told, he's one of 4 people out of 1,000 employees at that paper who is making six figures.

Law school ain't hard. The hard part is figuring out how they hell to make some money to live on while you're going through it for three years. If you can figure that out, just show up for classes prepared and you'll do alright.

College grads with just a BA in journalism face a very CERTAIN future in the news business -- it's CERTAIN that this business just doesn't pay subsistence-level wages anymore. If your shop does, a pink-slip may be in your future. Just ask about 50 sap reporters at the Dallas Morning News about that!

Tribune, L.A. Times, NYT, Wall St. Journal -- no reporter at any shop is immune to pink-slip-itis.