A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting -- FINAL UPDATE

[outofplace]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting

Matt, you have to trust your instincts. If you feel it is important to have that type of conversation, have it. I have to disagree with the canucklehead on this one. This isn't just about your father. It's about you, too. It is different for those of us who have a rocky relationship with a parent when they are dying. Not easier. Not harder. Just different.

If you don't feel like it is worth opening old wounds, then just be there. Just talk, or try to give him the opportunity to talk. Or just be there and available to him. Even if you aren't on the best of terms, he's your father. Whatever he did or didn't do doesn't matter. It's what you do that matters.

My relationship with my father was better near the end, but it was never good. The reasons why don't matter. I put it all aside to be there for him at the end and I'm glad I made that decision.

 

[AMacIsaac]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting

There are questions I never asked my Dad but in the end, they don't matter. What matters is that my Dad is dead and I'll never see him again. I didn't get to see him before he died because I was supposed to visit him but needed emergency surgery. See your dad and be with him whether you can ask the questions you have or not. In the end, the answers are not as important as you might think.

Well said, HC.

Hugs.

 

[Tommy_Dreamer]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting

Purely by coincidence, I visited my father right before he died.

We spent the last three days of his conscious life doing all the things he loved - long drives out in the country, eating at a rural inn, going to his favorite restaurant, hanging out and shooting the s--t.

My last night there, 30 seconds before we were leaving to go to dinner, he said to me, "I have to go into the hospital tomorrow to get an artery unclogged. It's no big deal. I should be out in two days. I might even be home the same afternoon."

He had a stroke on the operating table.

Eight days later, I held his hand in mine as he took his last breath.

In my younger days, we had a very contentious relationship and there are still a lot of questions I would love to know the answer to.

But I felt so lucky to have three wonderful days together right before he died.

We were very different - and equally bullish personalities - but we loved each other, respected each other and parted on a high note. I couldn't ask for more than that.

Rest in peace, Poppi.

You stomped on the terra.

And I'm doing my best to teach your grandson who I named after you to do likewise. Seems to be working so far.

Jesus, it just got too damn dusty in here.

My dad's alive, mom's not, but the being there for the last breath part just broke me.

As for my father, I've tried to have a more open relationship with him since mom died, but he always reverts back to the Vietnam veteran gruffness that has always plagued our relationship. He knows I love him but I'll never be close to him.

As for the thread creator's dilemma: Please try. You don't want any last words to someone you love to be without meaning.

 

[trifectarich]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting

Matt: Been in your shoes just recently and I'm aware of the things you think of in these situations.

Weeks and months after my dad died unexpectedly, all I thought of were the things I should have told him, wanted to tell him, and never did. I vowed that wasn't going to happen with my mother. Her ability to communicate was all but gone by the time she was admitted to hospice care, but for my own peace of mind I had to do it. Even though our talks were primarily one way and sometimes I wasn't even sure she knew who I was, every time I walked out of her room I felt as though an immense weight had been lifted from my shoulders.

Be loving. Make the most of the time that's left.

 

[rico_the_redneck]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting

Lono, great story. My dad's long gone, but I always tell my mom and wife and kids "I love you" at the end of every conversation and many times a day. I learned at age 12 the hard way that sometimes in life, dad doesn't come home from work and life is fragile.

I had a similar experience to the original post with one of my grandmothers. I had a falling out with her right before she died and I felt bad about it. But my aunt found a poem I wrote about my dad dying in my grandmother's purse when she died. So I sort of felt like that was her way of making peace. That piece of paper is one of many things I have from her I treasure.

My son is named for my dad and my daughter has my other grandmother's name and I try to keep all of their memories alive by telling my kids about my dad and my grandparents.

 

[Frank_Ridgeway]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting

I had a good dad. But he didn't want to talk about his impending death, even to the extent of what to do with his remains. Now, he was not a stupid man, he knew the dictionary definition of "hospice" and that they don't have you live in one unless they think death is imminent. I don't think the hospice people had any reason to believe he'd last six months in there, but that's what happened. And except for the last two weeks of it, he kept saying he wasn't going any time soon, no matter what his doctors said, and by the final two weeks he wasn't capable of talking very much at all. If he wanted to believe that, that was his choice, and I don't think it would have helped his morale if we behaved as if we didn't believe that was possible. My family was basically in agreement that his staying alive as long as he could, in a reasonably upbeat frame of mind, was more important than some conversations we might have with him. My mom got exasperated a couple times and said, "If you won't tell us what to do with you, you're going to get cremated." (Which is what happened.) It's maybe not how everyone would want it, but you have to consider what he wants, too. If he doesn't want to have end-of-life conversations, or conversations that seem like any sort of goodbye, that's how it's going to be. I don't have any major regrets about it nearly six years later -- I'm glad we had those extra months that no one thought we'd have. As someone else mentioned on this thread, that generation tended to not be touchy-feely.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting

I consider myself lucky when my grandmother died.

I loved her, but we didn't see each other enough to talk deep about issues. Plus, as a teenager, I really didn't want to confide in my grandmother. That's just how I was.

But she was hospitalized for several weeks after having a heart attack. One weekend, my mom took me to see her. I had a very bad cold, and at first, the doctors didn't want to let me in. But my family persuaded them to as long as I wore one of those medical masks.

Both my mom and my aunt warned me that Grandma would want me to kiss her goodbye, and to tell her that I couldn't because of my cold. When the time came to leave, she asked and I told her I couldn't. She said it would be OK, and pointed to her cheek. I decided to kiss her anyways, despite the warnings.

She left the hospital a few days later, but suffered another heart attack and died a week later.

I didn't get to see her again, but I'm glad I got to give her that last kiss goodbye.

 

[Voodoo Chile]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting

My father just died a month ago and I was in the same situation. The best advice I can give is that whatever you need to say is way more important than whatever you want to hear. Just be with your dad, tell him the things you want to tell him and make your peace with that. Often with our fathers, we want to hear them say something they don't think they need to say to us, and there's no way to force that.

 

[nmmetsfan]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting

I've got more experience with this than I would like, for what it's worth.

My only advice is that if there is something you want to tell him, don't hesitate. Don't expect reciprocation.
If you are looking for him to explain his actions or make amends for anything, you're going to be disappointed. He likely did the best he could, the only way he knew. He probably knows he has shortcomings and doesn't need them pointed out. Imagine yourself in a situation where you were facing death, and one of your children pointed out some of the bad things you did to them, mistakes you had made.

Spending time with him without the anxiousness and expectations of getting answers, just to be there and show him you love him, can create some of the best, lasting memories of your relationship with him. It would probably put him at peace. And doing good things for others is the quickest way to make yourself feel better, too. If you are able to do so.

 

[crusoes]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting

I guess my question is, once you ask the questions, are you prepared for what answers you might get? You may get none. You may not like them at all. You should be ready, no matter what, and deal with it accordingly.

 

[Matt1735]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting

I'd like to thank everyone for their thoughts, opinions and their own personal stories. Just to update a thing or two... I do live about 13 hours from them, so while I will be visiting, I cannot be there constantly or for long periods of time.

After reading what has been said here and reconciling with myself what I would want to say and what the purpose would be for saying a lot of things, I'm pretty much content with a decision that the past is the past and there are no real positives that I can gain from reopening old wounds. I may be there and change my mind depending on how things are going but the potential good that can come isn't worth the harm that can be caused to the other family members.

 

[albert77]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting

I'm the oldest in my family and my Dad was in the Navy when I was born. He spent the first 10 days of my life with me and my mom, then he shipped out and was gone the next 10 months. When he came back, he was a stranger. We're also a lot alike and we butted heads when I was a child. As a result, we have never quite had the same close relationship my siblings have with him. My mom and I can talk for hours about anything and everything, but Dad and I still to this day have trouble with small talk. We have both over the years worked at getting closer, but it's still tough sometimes, especially now that he's nearing 80.

It's ironic, though. Last year, we were at a funeral for a cousin of mine, who died of breast cancer at age 50. I was sitting next to my mother as this girl's sister went up to give a eulogy and my mom whispered to me, "take notes, because you're going to be doing that for your father when the time comes." And I thought to myself, what would I say about him, more importantly, what will I say to him as the end approaches? I honestly don't know. I think I've got some time to ponder that subject, because he's still in very good health, but you never know.

 

[Matt1735]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting -- UPDATE

The Hospice nurse said Dad has less than a month to live today. Even though she said she could be wrong, I'm sure she's not.

Dad's been going downhill really hard, really fast these last couple of weeks.

I don't know how I feel about all of it... I've never been as close to him as I would have liked (I think I explained that elsewhere), but at the same point, this truly sucks.

It sucks that he's going through this, it sucks for my brother and I... but it really sucks for my mother, the person who's life was being with my father. She is the typical 1960s wife/mother... stayed home with us, never was employed outside the house (but worked her fanny off inside, raising us and doing everything for him and us...)

I have no idea what the next few months will bring, except that my dad will finally be out of the pain/discomfort he's been in for a long while... and that my mom will be undergoing the worst possible pains she can ever feel.

Thanks, SJ, for letting me have a place to ramble and not feel bad doing it...

 

[HC]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting -- UPDATE

I'm sorry for your pain, Matt. You and your family are in my thoughts.

 

[BYH]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting -- UPDATE

Matt:

I've learned, twice, over the past two months that those hospice nurses are very rarely wrong when it comes to estimating how much time a patient has left. All I can say is to make sure you say what you need to say, preferably while your Dad is still lucid, but while he's out of it, if need be.

My mom died March 14, and while I will forever be grateful for the fact that we had a wonderful relationship and that we didn't have to spend her last few months making up for lost time or mending fences, I still sometimes wish I'd said the things I always thought about her. I'm confident she knows how much I loved her, how much I admired her, how much I appreciated her, how much I wanted to make her proud of me, but I wish I'd said those things while she was still lucid. But I didn't want to, b/c I didn't want her to think "Great. I'm dying." Even though we all knew she was, and even though I know in her heart she knew she was.

When we got the news that it would be a couple days at most the morning of March 14, I had myself a few good cries and then took my Mom's hand and said what I needed to say. The family priest said the last thing to go is hearing, so I believe she heard me (she was hooked up to oxygen and basically in a coma). Again, I would have liked to have said it earlier, but I take solace in saying it at all.

It sounds crazy to say it, but the adrenaline will carry you thru the funeral. There's just stuff that needs to be done, and you do it. It also helps to remember your Dad. When Mom died, my sister and I spent the next couple nights with my Dad (as well as with my wife and my sister's hubby) trading old stories of our childhood and laughing at the hell we raised and the hell we put them through. Dad didn't remember half of it, and the truth is my sister and I probably raised the mildest trouble imaginable, but he smiled and laughed and it was important for all of us to remember good times with Mom.

It's after the funeral that the adrenaline fades and reality starts to set in. Be there for your Mom, in whatever fashion she wants. Maybe she wants to talk about Dad, or go out and shop or do something. Or maybe she just wants to be left alone, but finds comfort in having you in the same house or expecting a phone call from you at a certain time every night. You'll know what to do.

Good luck, and I join HC in thinking good thoughts for you and your family.

 

[KYSportsWriter]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting -- UPDATE

matt, my prayers are with you and your family.

stuff like this is why i'm glad i've been able to reconnect with my dad, who i didn't see or hear from for more than a decade.

he had a heart attack 5 years ago, and i don't know what i would have done if he had died.

i most likely wouldn't have found my sister, bethany, and i never would have gotten the chance to hear his side of things and forgive him.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting -- UPDATE

I'm sorry to hear about your dad, Matt. Best wishes.

 

[tadwriter]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting -- UPDATE

The candles are lighted and the prayers rise with their comforting light.

 

[outofplace]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting -- UPDATE

Matt, ramble away. Many of us have been there and we're happy to offer any assistance we can, no matter how small it may be.

May you and your family find as much peace as possible in such a difficult time. It isn't easy, no matter what kind of relationship you have with him. All you can do is be there for him and for your family and try to hold on to as many good thoughts and memories as possible when he is gone. You can't just erase the bad stuff. My dad has been gone nine years now and I still remember the bad with the good. But sometimes I think of something he did or I tell my little girl about her Grandpa and I smile (no person alive is going to get that reference).

Keep what BYH wrote in mind. Everybody reacts differently, but a lot of what he wrote sounds like my experiences when my father died. It really is so hard to know what to say or not to say. There are no right or wrong answers except being there for them, and I know you are doing that just as he did that for his mother.

BYH, I suspected from some posts I've seen, but this is the first I'm reading that your mother passed. I'm very sorry for your loss.

 

[jlee]

Re: A Dying Parent, Forgiving, Forgetting -- UPDATE

Matt,

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. Though it's short, I think this is one of the best threads on the board. Thanks for sharing with us.