A/C advice needed

[Batman]

So, after we had to get the refrigerant in our A/C unit recharged for the second time this month, it's become apparent that we need to get a new system. We're going to shell out some money, so as much as it sucks I'm not freaking out over that. It is what it is. Trying to survive a southern summer without it is not an option.

What I'm wondering is, does anyone have any recommendations on a particular brand? Any horror stories? I browsed one consumer review website and came away with two things -- according to consumers every brand sucks and blows up quickly, and according to HVAC professionals every brand is more or less the same and will last forever if it's installed and serviced properly.
Our A/C guy (a family friend we trust greatly) suggested either Goodman, Payne (a Carrier offshoot) or ValueAir (a York offshoot). Anyone have experience with those?

Any help is appreciated.

 

[93Devil]

What is the difference in price between the off brands and an actual Trane, Carrier or York unit?

 

[EStreetJoe]

Make sure you get the right SEER rating for your square footage.

 

[Batman]

What is the difference in price between the off brands and an actual Trane, Carrier or York unit?

Not sure. I'd guess at least a few hundred dollars more. The prices he quoted for the three units ranged from $3,300 to $3,400 installed. That's for a midrange, 2 1/2 ton, 13 SEER unit.

 

[EStreetJoe]

The Amana Distinctions unit I've had for five years has been running trouble-free.

 

[Justin_Rice]

Carrier and York are garbage. Trane is high quality. American Standard is the same as a trane (trane's off brand).

I just had to do the same thing in May - replaced a 12-year old 11 seer with a nice 16-seer trane. Cost me $8,000 (including some other minor work that had to be done because the people that built my house were morons). Paying 0 percent for three years though.

In our first two months - compared to the same months last year - we're using one-third fewer KWHs on the electric bill, and our house is noticeably more comfortable. My neighbor replaced the same age, same 11-seer unit last year with a 15-seer American Standard, and the difference in their electric bill was nearly as much as the monthly payment on the new unit.

Your mileage may vary.


Just be sure to get three or four quotes, and don't be afraid to play one off another. Company B gave me a cheaper quote than Company A, but I liked the Company A guy better. So I texted him a picture of Company B's quote, and he matched the price.

 

[old_tony]

I'm in my 14th summer with a Rheem unit that has never had to be serviced.

 

[Batman]

Just be sure to get three or four quotes, and don't be afraid to play one off another. Company B gave me a cheaper quote than Company A, but I liked the Company A guy better. So I texted him a picture of Company B's quote, and he matched the price.

We're pretty committed to our guy, and I'd rather not play games with him. Not only has my wife known him most of her life, he's done right -- more than right -- by us so far with our failing unit. The two service calls were on July 4 and today. He charged us $100 for the July 4 call (and $60 of that was for the freon), and didn't charge us at all today. Said he'd roll it in when we bought the new system.
Our unit actually went out the first time on the evening of July 3. He was there first thing the next morning and has apologized several times for being on another call and not being able to make it that night.
He's also promised to give us the family rate on the replacement unit. I have no reason to think he's screwing us over, and I'm not about to give him the shaft.

 

[Boom_70]

Just be sure to get three or four quotes, and don't be afraid to play one off another. Company B gave me a cheaper quote than Company A, but I liked the Company A guy better. So I texted him a picture of Company B's quote, and he matched the price.

We're pretty committed to our guy, and I'd rather not play games with him. Not only has my wife known him most of her life, he's done right -- more than right -- by us so far with our failing unit. The two service calls were on July 4 and today. He charged us $100 for the July 4 call (and $60 of that was for the freon), and didn't charge us at all today. Said he'd roll it in when we bought the new system.
Our unit actually went out the first time on the evening of July 3. He was there first thing the next morning and has apologized several times for being on another call and not being able to make it that night.
He's also promised to give us the family rate on the replacement unit. I have no reason to think he's screwing us over, and I'm not about to give him the shaft.

I guess that begs the question -- why the need for advise from the SJ A/C experts?

I will never buy a car from the same guy twice. You lose your negotiating edge when you get to know someone.

 

[Justin_Rice]

Just be sure to get three or four quotes, and don't be afraid to play one off another. Company B gave me a cheaper quote than Company A, but I liked the Company A guy better. So I texted him a picture of Company B's quote, and he matched the price.

We're pretty committed to our guy, and I'd rather not play games with him. Not only has my wife known him most of her life, he's done right -- more than right -- by us so far with our failing unit. The two service calls were on July 4 and today. He charged us $100 for the July 4 call (and $60 of that was for the freon), and didn't charge us at all today. Said he'd roll it in when we bought the new system.
Our unit actually went out the first time on the evening of July 3. He was there first thing the next morning and has apologized several times for being on another call and not being able to make it that night.
He's also promised to give us the family rate on the replacement unit. I have no reason to think he's screwing us over, and I'm not about to give him the shaft.

It's show business, not show friends

 

[Justin_Rice]

I'm in my 14th summer with a Rheem unit that has never had to be serviced.

Rheems are also not a unit with a high reputation for durability, OT's results not withstanding.

 

[Batman]

Just be sure to get three or four quotes, and don't be afraid to play one off another. Company B gave me a cheaper quote than Company A, but I liked the Company A guy better. So I texted him a picture of Company B's quote, and he matched the price.

We're pretty committed to our guy, and I'd rather not play games with him. Not only has my wife known him most of her life, he's done right -- more than right -- by us so far with our failing unit. The two service calls were on July 4 and today. He charged us $100 for the July 4 call (and $60 of that was for the freon), and didn't charge us at all today. Said he'd roll it in when we bought the new system.
Our unit actually went out the first time on the evening of July 3. He was there first thing the next morning and has apologized several times for being on another call and not being able to make it that night.
He's also promised to give us the family rate on the replacement unit. I have no reason to think he's screwing us over, and I'm not about to give him the shaft.

I guess that begs the question -- why the need for advise from the SJ A/C experts

Because I'm trying to get an opinion on the brands, quality of the brands, see if there's a consensus that one brand is either great or sucks, or see if there's a different unit I ought to ask him to look into and get a quote on.

 

[93Devil]

If you plan on spending another decade in your house, get a good unit like a Trane.

Just curious, who do you get your power from? If it is co-op they might be able to come out and give you some good advice on energy savings for your unit. I know the co-ops in Virginia do this, but you might be ready to get this thing installed ASAP.

Just be sure to get it sized properly. If you have an HVAC on site already, I would also suggest checking your ductwork for leaks and installing an attic fan.

 

[Bubbler]

Our York has been very suspect since we had it put in four years ago. The entire unit had to be replaced at one point.

We found out the hard way this summer that when it gets extremely hot (we were over 100 degrees for several days in a row), the unit will shut itself down so it doesn't overheat. That's right. There's no internal fan and the blower fan is not designed to remove heat from the unit.

Our A/C tech, who came out and looked at it, was pissed. Since it had never been so hot here for so long, they had never had to service that problem. You basically just have to hose it down. I'm seriously thinking about putting an umbrella over my unit when it gets extremely hot to avoid that happening again.

However, we got a 10-year warranty, so we haven't been out any serious cash. When it works, it works well.

I have a feeling that the pitfalls we've had could happen with any brand.

 

[Justin_Rice]

installing an attic fan.

I thought so too.

But among my qualified advice giving neighbor, and everyone I got a quote from - they all said an attic fan can actually work against a properly built modern roof. I was begging them all to sell me one (with an install) and they all said I shouldn't.

The three biggest things for us were:

1) We had to get a small pad built for the new unit to sit on. The old one was slowly eroding away, and sitting at any angle other than perfectly level makes your unit run inefficiently.

2) Getting a damper put in so we can shut down our downstairs vents. We have a two story house, plus a basement. When the house was built, they put the unit in the basement, so it's a struggle to pressurize the upstairs and get it cold. A damper downstairs let us mostly shut off the downstairs vents and now our upstairs has never been colder this consistently.

3) Changing one of our returns. The builder put a supply next to the old unit with a feeder pipe so small, it didn't even register on two estimators' air flow calculators. The basement has the coldest air in the house, so to not be sucking it into the supply was pretty awful. The air flow on this supply was so bad that - even though it was six inches from the unit - there wasn't enough pressure to get that little bit of suck that helps hold an air filter in place.

 

[Batman]

Our York has been very suspect since we had it put in four years ago. The entire unit had to be replaced at one point.

We found out the hard way this summer that when it gets extremely hot (we were over 100 degrees for several days in a row), the unit will shut itself down so it doesn't overheat. That's right. There's no internal fan and the blower fan is not designed to remove heat from the unit.

Our A/C tech, who came out and looked at it, was pissed. Since it had never been so hot here for so long, they had never had to service that problem. You basically just have to hose it down. I'm seriously thinking about putting an umbrella over my unit when it gets extremely hot to avoid that happening again.

However, we got a 10-year warranty, so we haven't been out any serious cash. When it works, it works well.

I have a feeling that the pitfalls we've had could happen with any brand.

Did you mention that on the heat thread on sports and news? I remember reading that somewhere else, and had forgotten about it. Thanks for the reminder. Where I live, 93 is par for the course in the summer. We've had a few days of highs in the upper 80s and it's considered a break in the heat.
So, yeah, having to hose off the A/C unit when it climbs into the 90s is going to be a pain in the ass.

 

[93Devil]

I can see the logic if you have a smaller attic and only one vent out, but my attic runs the length of the house and is about 1,000 sf with three gables on it. During the blistering heat two summers ago, it was getting 130-140 degrees up there, so anything I could do to keep that "hot hat" cooler was worth it. My upstairs unit was having trouble keeping up on the hottest days. Now the units do fine.

Now if the fan was pulling air from my house, then I can see what you are saying. But my attic was already cut for electric, so this was not a difficult install for me.

 

[93Devil]

Our York has been very suspect since we had it put in four years ago. The entire unit had to be replaced at one point.

We found out the hard way this summer that when it gets extremely hot (we were over 100 degrees for several days in a row), the unit will shut itself down so it doesn't overheat. That's right. There's no internal fan and the blower fan is not designed to remove heat from the unit.

Our A/C tech, who came out and looked at it, was pissed. Since it had never been so hot here for so long, they had never had to service that problem. You basically just have to hose it down. I'm seriously thinking about putting an umbrella over my unit when it gets extremely hot to avoid that happening again.

However, we got a 10-year warranty, so we haven't been out any serious cash. When it works, it works well.

I have a feeling that the pitfalls we've had could happen with any brand.

Did you mention that on the heat thread on sports and news? I remember reading that somewhere else, and had forgotten about it. Thanks for the reminder. Where I live, 93 is par for the course in the summer. We've had a few days of highs in the upper 80s and it's considered a break in the heat.
So, yeah, having to hose off the A/C unit when it climbs into the 90s is going to be a pain in the ass.

Yes, but Justin makes a valid point, also. You need to be sure attic fans are sized properly.

 

[BDC99]

I have a Goodman, and other than a repair caused by a lightning strike it has done well. My A/C tech said it is what he uses, so that made me feel good about it.

 

[jackfinarelli]

At our previous house, we had a Carrier CAC unit that lasted 24 years and when we moved out it was still in fine working order. We had it inspected/cleaned/etc annually.

In our current home we have two zone cooling with two Trane units. Neither has had any problem of any kind in 5 Washington DC summers. We also have them inspected/cleaned/etc annually.