A Bump In The Gasoline Tax -- Deadly, In Any Guise

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Ben_Hecht

Active Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2002
Messages
24,931
No, an Obama presidency will not be all sunshine and roses.

One of the biggest legislative likelihoods will likely be an enactment of a substantial increase in the Federal gasoline tax.

Never mind that millions of stalwart middle-class citizens reside on the edges of the outskirts, as we view the results of 70+ years of aggressive urban sprawl, accelerated
by the development of the Interstate Highway System.

And, as we quote a editorial in Tuesday's NYT:

"Expensive gasoline is not good news for most American families. In some rural areas where people must drive long distances, and a pickup is more of a necessity than a lifestyle
choice, filling up the tank can eat up nearly 15% of a worker's take-home income. Pricey
gasoline is acting as a brake on the economy and pushing up the price of food and other goods."

No kidding . . . not to mention that gasoline taxes are among the most regressive of tariffs, as they effectively hold a gun at the heads of people who must drive to their jobs and to best manage their children/personal affairs.

So, you want to make gas even MORE expensive?

Suuuure, if you're a limousine lib like those who live within major cities, where car ownership is realistically not a requirement, and think it's a simple decision to bump gas taxes substantially in order to conserve, and to reduce the nation's reliance on foreign oil supplies.

It's a simple decision, all right -- but not in the way they think. Simpleminded, yes.

Here's the Times' concluding leap of "logic":

"Still, Americans' response to rising gasoline prices makes in excellent case for a gas tax.
It proves that drivers will change their behavior in response to high fuel prices."

Sweet Jesus Christ. This is muddleheaded liberal social-engineering twaddle at its absolute worst, direct from the folks who editoralized against people being allowed to bring suitcases onto aircraft to store in the overheads.

Millions of people in this country don't HAVE a choice about their broad driving habits, given the aforementioned urban sprawl so beloved by the automotive industry, the oil
industry, and the auto-supply operations. Is everybody suddenly supposed to be able to work at home and/or in some kind of self-employed role? Is everybody supposed to move into major metro areas, at the snap of someone's fingers?

Braindamage.

So Congress is rubbing its hands together, eager to shake down victims of urbran sprawl -- already punished severely by the recent real-estate downturn -- for (badly-needed) tax revenue, in the name of some measure of eventual conservation.

Detroit already gets the picture about people wanting more fuel-efficient cars. Recent
sales figures on gas-guzzlers are abysmal. The marketplace effects have not been subtle.

But Detroit can't turn on a dime. And in the interim, the middle and lower classes get further abused between Mr. Rock and Mr. Hard Place, while the Treasury sucks up billions in NON-excess cash with a wholly-arbitrary tax increase no one wants except the eggheads.

Gag me.
 
Wait, I thought the purpose of taxes was to raise money for the government. You mean they're really a way for government to legislate behavior?

Silly me.
 
Armchair_QB said:
Wait, I thought the purpose of taxes was to raise money for the government. You mean they're really a way for government to legislate behavior?


Certainly. Look at the outrageous levels of tobacco and liquor taxes. They're grotesque.
 
Thats why
Ben_Hecht said:
Armchair_QB said:
Wait, I thought the purpose of taxes was to raise money for the government. You mean they're really a way for government to legislate behavior?


Certainly. Look at the outrageous levels of tobacco and liquor taxes. They're grotesque.

Long live Duty Free. I love living near Canada.
 
Did you actually have any proof of this likely legislative likelihood?

Also, the federal gas tax is 18.4 cents per gallon, a fraction of the current price, and it hasn't increased in years. And that money pays for highway repair, which is going to become more necessary and more expensive as more and more of the country's interstates age and begin to crumble. And, of course, highway construction, which we all know we need plenty of, so that the stalwart middle class can continue to move to the suburbs, as is their God-given right.
 
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Armchair_QB said:
Wait, I thought the purpose of taxes was to raise money for the government. You mean they're really a way for government to legislate behavior?

Silly me.

By that reasoning, using government to open new public areas to oil exploration in order to permit Americans to continue their behavior of consuming gasoline is also off limits.
 
deskslave said:
Did you actually have any proof of this likely legislative likelihood?

Also, the federal gas tax is 18.4 cents per gallon, a fraction of the current price, and it hasn't increased in years. And that money pays for highway repair, which is going to become more necessary and more expensive as more and more of the country's interstates age and begin to crumble. And, of course, highway construction, which we all know we need plenty of, so that the stalwart middle class can continue to move to the suburbs, as is their God-given right.

We could always cut some wasteful pork barrel spending from the budget. Unless of course Robert Byrd needs another high school named after him.
 
Clerk Typist said:
They have high schools in West Virginia? Who knew?

Surprised me too. I think Byrd had 'em built so his Klan buddies' kids would have someplace to hang out during the day.
 
Inky_Wretch said:
Victims of urban sprawl?

How is somebody a victim when they chose to abandon the city for more house in the suburbs?

Sorry, but I'm going to call bull**** on this one, at least in quite a few cases.

When I was medically discharged from the Navy, I moved to a home that my grandfather left me when he died. The home was a few minutes away from my first post-Navy newspaper. Everything was fine...in 1998.

But now my job is much farther away.

Now before you say take a job closer to home or move closer to my job, I'll stop you right there. The job I have actually pays me enough to keep my home, and there is no way (no matter what beer your drink or what drugs you take) abandoning my mortgage four years in to save on gas money would make a lick of sense.

And unless and until you've ever lived in what really is the urban sprawl of Houston and the suburbs, you simply don't have a legitimate clue on this issue.
 
AlleyAllen said:
Inky_Wretch said:
Victims of urban sprawl?

How is somebody a victim when they chose to abandon the city for more house in the suburbs?

Sorry, but I'm going to call bull**** on this one, at least in quite a few cases.

When I was medically discharged from the Navy, I moved to a home that my grandfather left me when he died. The home was a few minutes away from my first post-Navy newspaper. Everything was fine...in 1998.

But now my job is much farther away.

Now before you say take a job closer to home or move closer to my job, I'll stop you right there. The job I have actually pays me enough to keep my home, and there is no way (no matter what beer your drink or what drugs you take) abandoning my mortgage four years in to save on gas money would make a lick of sense.

And unless and until you've ever lived in what really is the urban sprawl of Houston and the suburbs, you simply don't have a legitimate clue on this issue.

AA, I certainly wasn't talking about you. I'm talking about the people who decided to buy the 3,500 square-foot house 45-90 minutes from their job instead of the 2,000 sq. footer 20-30 minutes away.

I was visiting friends in St. Louis recently. They hosted a cookout for their St. Louis friends. All of them lived "out in the county" rather in the city. Two of them had 45 minute commutes to work and they were the ones complaining the most about gas prices.
 
Inky...I have co-workers who do the same, commuting over an hour, sometimes. And it bugs the hell out of me.

But urban sprawl is a reality, and gas prices aren't going to fix it. Gas prices are only going to make many other things worse.
 
deskslave said:
Did you actually have any proof of this likely legislative likelihood?

Also, the federal gas tax is 18.4 cents per gallon, a fraction of the current price, and it hasn't increased in years. And that money pays for highway repair, which is going to become more necessary and more expensive as more and more of the country's interstates age and begin to crumble. And, of course, highway construction, which we all know we need plenty of, so that the stalwart middle class can continue to move to the suburbs, as is their God-given right.
He probably doesn't have the proof, but Democratic president + Democratic Congress = massive tax hikes. See "Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993" for more details.
 
F_B...I don't deny the logic in what you say. But for the nth time, I and virtually all Americans don't care how it's done in Europe. Circumstances are so different here, it simply isn't a fair comparison.
 
Hard to say. If Obama has a "free hand" with a friendly Congress, brace for even more taxes for this. Which I clearly do not understand because gas (and food) taxes are the most regressive of all. They hurt the rich the least.

I now live 2.9 miles from work and less than 2 miles from just about all of the shopping/parks/recreation/church that I need to visit. All in all, I could make it on about 70-80 miles a week, not including any road trips. If it's at $2 or $4 a gallon, it won't affect me that much. At $4 a gallon, it's about $9 a week for me. With more items now expensive, I just shop at Aldi and don't eat out nearly as much as before.

Yet I feel for my co-workers who live 30 or 40 miles from work. They are the ones who have to make the real financial decisions on whether to stay where they are.

I believe *that* will be where the bargains will be for real estate. Places that are 30-40 miles (not miles, but miles) from central city/downtown areas because who will want to live there unless they clear six figures or have super low debt.
 
deskslave said:
Did you actually have any proof of this likely legislative likelihood?


Nope.

But I've been reading between the lines in these scenarios for a long, long time, and some prominent libs have been floating this trial balloon for months, now.
I'm convinced they'll go for it, and early, in the '09 legislative session. It's the worst kind of liberalspeak, but this one's going to be hard to stop.

Best spin I can put on it myself is that it'll generate a ton of tax revenue, which would help the weakened dollar (thanks, Fredo, you dolt).
But the sheer regressiveness of it still makes it repulsive, in my mind.

Which is one reason why I remain a GDI. Hate seeing either side get too cocky.
 

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