2013 MLB Hall of Fame Screechfest

[Flying Headbutt]

If I had a vote?

Piazza
Trammell
Biggio
Bagwell
Raines

 

[Armchair_QB]

Interesting couple of tweets from Phil Hersh.

Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil
I have a ballot because I covered baseball for nearly 20 years. And I'm keeping it just to vote against the druggies.

Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil
Oh, the joy I will have snubbing Sosa, Bonds and Clemens (plus McGwire and Palmeiro, natch) on my HoF ballot.

 

[qtlaw]

Based on watching baseball for the past 42 years, its hard for me to see Biggio as a HOF'er. 3000 hits is magical and an astonishing feat, but Biggio just never seemed like a dominating player, or even the best that year at his position.

I can see Bonds and Clemens, but no way on McGwire. Sure he hit 49 his rookie year, so he was a power hitter, but he hit .201 one year and sat so he would stay above the Mendoza line. That's not a HOF'er. Similarly, Sosa was no great shakes until he started taking PEDs.

 

[Della9250]

If it wasn't for steroids, Bagwell, McGwire and Palmeiro would have already gotten in. Bonds, Sosa, Clemens and Piazza would be going in this year.

With steroids as a factor, I think Bagwell and Piazza are the only ones of the seven that will get in. Bonds and Clemens will always get enough to be safe to stay on the ballot but I think there are enough voters who will ensure they never get in.

Morris is getting in this year. He was 48 votes shy last time, he's the top vote-getting holdover, no one who has gotten that close has never not made it and there are enough anti-steroid votes that will go his way instead of to the newcomers.

From this ballot, I think the writers will eventually induct Morris, Bagwell, Raines, Biggio and Piazza. Anyone else I have to wait and see what the first-time vote totals are.

Eventually I could see Morris, Bagwell, Raines, Biggio, Piazza, Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Trammell, Edgar Martinez, Lofton and McGriff chosen once the Veterans Committee has their say.

 

[TheWritingWaffle]

My Ballot, if I had a vote

First-time
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Kenny Lofton


Returning to the ballot:
Jeff Bagwell
Mark McGwire
Tim Raines
Larry Walker

 

[Della9250]

Biggio is a compiler but for a second baseman, being 5th in doubles, 15th all-time in runs, 21st in hits and a multiple gold glover is impressive.

His 10-most similar batters are Yount, Jeter, Morgan, Molitor, Alomar, Ripken, Damon, Brooks Robinson, Whitaker and Brett.

By WAR he is 10th all-time for a second baseman and the 5th best for the position for careers started after 1930

 

[Smasher_Sloan]

If it wasn't for steroids, Bagwell, McGwire and Palmeiro would have already gotten in.

Or, if it wasn't for steroids, they wouldn't have the numbers to even be in the discussion.

 

[Smasher_Sloan]

Catfish Hunter

Ten years with Oakland, five with the Yankees. Two good years with the Yankees.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

McGwire admitted he took PEDs. Palmeiro got caught. Bagwell is just slanderous speculation.

 

[BB Bobcat]

As I'm sure I've mentioned here before, the guy for me who symbolizes the problem of using steroids as a major factor is Mike Piazza.

What are you going to do with him?
Do you believe he was clean?
Do you want to penalize him for suspicion?

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Based on watching baseball for the past 42 years, its hard for me to see Biggio as a HOF'er. 3000 hits is magical and an astonishing feat, but Biggio just never seemed like a dominating player, or even the best that year at his position.

I can see Bonds and Clemens, but no way on McGwire. Sure he hit 49 his rookie year, so he was a power hitter, but he hit .201 one year and sat so he would stay above the Mendoza line. That's not a HOF'er. Similarly, Sosa was no great shakes until he started taking PEDs.

Completely agree on McGwire. Even without the steroid allegations, he was one of the most overrated players around. He had that three-year stretch in Oakland where he had the .201 season and then two others where he was in the .230 range. Very Dave Kingmanesque...

 

[nmmetsfan]

If there was ever a year to eliminate the 10-man rule, this would be it. There are easily close to 20 players of the 37 you can make an arguement for.

I think the voting is either going to be Morris by himself or Morris and Biggio.

And the logjam will begin for the next decade.

There are a couple of places that do straw polls as Jan. 9 approaches. I know the LA Times asked 18 voters on Monday about Bonds and Clemens and 10 said they would vote for both.

And Todd Walker should be on the first-timer list with Larry Walker as the hold-over Walker.

The way many of the old farts with votes like to keep a small Hall, there's no need to expand it. There won't even be 10 who make it this time.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

As I'm sure I've mentioned here before, the guy for me who symbolizes the problem of using steroids as a major factor is Mike Piazza.

What are you going to do with him?
Do you believe he was clean?
Do you want to penalize him for suspicion?

He and Bagwell would be the two that would give me the most trouble... I think both used, but I don't know that I would feel comfortable keeping either out of Cooperstown based on those suspicions.

I don't have any issues with keeping McGwire, Sosa or Palmeiro out, even though Sosa's use was never proven.

 

[BB Bobcat]

I can't say "I'm going to penalize Barry Bonds for using but I'm going to vote for Mike Piazza."

So I'll vote for both of them.

 

[LongTimeListener]

When the whole McGwire/andro flareup happened in 1998, the first other name mentioned as a user of andro was Jeff Bagwell. He was a skinny kid coming up in Boston who turned into a massively yoked Astro with the help of a personal trainer. He did this all in the exact years that were baseball's steroid golden era, and when testing began his body and career fell apart as quickly as any other player's. He went from 39 home runs in 2003 to 27 in 2004 to 3 and out of the game in 2005.

Believing he was clean because his name hasn't come up, and that the only thing he was doing was the GNC over-the-counter stuff, requires the same kind of naivete that got baseball into the mess in the first place. To me he's the biggest question on the whole ballot and the reason that anyone who doesn't vote for Bonds is doing a disservice. We just don't know who was doing what, and to pretend we do is folly.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

You cannot penalize people for what you THINK you know. That's a witch hunt, pure and simple. It's not as if Bagwell was the first guy in baseball whose career fell off a cliff and came to a sudden end. That happened before steroids were invented. Before the lively ball, too.

 

[joe]

Sandy Alomar Jr.
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mike Piazza
Sammy Sosa
Jeff Bagwell
Rafael Palmeiro

 

[Della9250]

There's next to no evidence from Bagwell's HR totals that suggest steroids.

At 23 he hit 15. He then went 18-20-39-21 (in 114 games)-31-43-34-42-47 (peaked at 32)-39-31-39-27.

He hit those 27 homers as a 36 year old. Then hit three in 39 games at 37 and his career was done. That seems like natural progression.

 

[Joe Williams]

As I'm sure I've mentioned here before, the guy for me who symbolizes the problem of using steroids as a major factor is Mike Piazza.

What are you going to do with him?
Do you believe he was clean?
Do you want to penalize him for suspicion?

I think you wait.
This isn't a matter of penalizing anyone, as long as they remain on the ballot. Any real penalty would only come if a guy goes 0-for-15 years on the ballot.
I'm assuming that Piazza and others who might be saddled with suspicions or rumors or hunches or whatever still get enough votes to remain on the ballot.
I'd be in favor of doing away with that 5% rule and keeping eligible everyone, as long as they retired between 5 and 20 years ago.
If we don't have more info, or better context on steroids, 20 years after a guy has retired, THEN we make the tough call.

 

[Della9250]

If there was ever a year to eliminate the 10-man rule, this would be it. There are easily close to 20 players of the 37 you can make an arguement for.

I think the voting is either going to be Morris by himself or Morris and Biggio.

And the logjam will begin for the next decade.

There are a couple of places that do straw polls as Jan. 9 approaches. I know the LA Times asked 18 voters on Monday about Bonds and Clemens and 10 said they would vote for both.

And Todd Walker should be on the first-timer list with Larry Walker as the hold-over Walker.

The way many of the old farts with votes like to keep a small Hall, there's no need to expand it. There won't even be 10 who make it this time.

The problem is that by limiting the number of votes and the people on the ballot leads to the inevitable logjam. I'll be conservative and suggest that only Morris and Biggio get elected. If you vote for steroid guys, who do you leave out of this group in 2013 — Bonds, Clemens, Piazza, Sosa, Schilling, Bagwell, Raines, and newcomers Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Frank Thomas, Jeff Kent and Mike Mussina.

That's 12, not counting the Edgar Martinezs' Lee Smiths and etc. who get votes.

And let's say that Glavine and Maddux, as 300 game winners, are the only ones elected.

The next year you'd have this at the top of the ballot — Bonds, Clemens, Piazza, Sosa, Schilling, Bagwell, Raines, Thomas, Kent, Mussina, plus newcomers Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson and John Smoltz.