Inside Amazon

[YankeeFan]

When Walter Isaacson's biography of Steve Jobs came out, there as a lot of talk about whether he needed to be so hard on his employees to get so much out of them.

I think the simple answer was "yes".

If Amazon wasn't so tough, would they be as good, as innovative?

 

[Ace]

This customer loves Amazon.

But that story is eye-opening. I fear the rest of corporate America will go that route as well...it's all about incentive. What incentive does Amazon (or any other company) have to treat workers better or pay them more, if there's a line around the door of people waiting to work there?

Blue and white-collar life is going to get a lot worse in the US before it gets better.

The only incentive would be is if good people refused to work there under those conditions. Not sure that's likely anytime soon. The tighther the job market, the more leverage the bosses have.

 

[Ace]

When Walter Isaacson's biography of Steve Jobs came out, there as a lot of talk about whether he needed to be so hard on his employees to get so much out of them.

I think the simple answer was "yes".

If Amazon wasn't so tough, would they be as good, as innovative?

If you want to worka at a place where people are encouraged to snitch behind your back and the expectation is that you return an email promptly that you received at midnight. Fine.

What's really bad is how they treat their thoussands and thousands of warehouse workers. Because you know the more crap the white collar guy is getting, the more is going to roll downhill to make him look good and keep the snitches at bay.

 

[YankeeFan]

But...but...I thought we didn't need unions now because companies weren't mean to people anymore?

Do you think these two would have preferred union representation, where their contributions, job assignments, and wages would have been largely tied to their seniority, and not their contributions:

Even relatively junior employees can make major contributions. The new delivery-by-drone project announced in 2013, for example, was coinvented by a low-level engineer named Daniel Buchmueller.

Last August, Stephenie Landry, an operations executive, joined in discussions about how to shorten delivery times and developed an idea for rushing goods to urban customers in an hour or less. One hundred eleven days later, she was in Brooklyn directing the start of the new service, Prime Now.

 

[YankeeFan]

If you want to worka at a place where people are encouraged to snitch behind your back and the expectation is that you return an email promptly that you received at midnight. Fine.

As you note, no one is forced to work at/for Amazon, and they know going in that it's a tough work environment.

But, here's the other thing, wouldn't you want to know if one of your direct reports wasn't doing a good job?

We bemoan the "blue wall of silence" and other instances where workers cover for the worst among them. Working in a "go along, get along" environment frustrates any ambitious, innovative employee.

So, Amazon has created a workplace where innovation is allowed to flourish, where speaking your mind, and even criticizing bad ideas is encouraged, and where poor performers are identified, and pushed out.

And, the company has thrived as a result.

 

[Songbird]

Eh, Bezos probably

The line, "when you hit the wall, you climb it" is going to stick with me for a long time.

Either climb over or get the **** off!

 

[LongTimeListener]

When Google and Facebook are looking at you saying "Guys, back off," you know you've gone too far.

 

[Ace]

As you note, no one is forced to work at/for Amazon, and they know going in that it's a tough work environment.

But, here's the other thing, wouldn't you want to know if one of your direct reports wasn't doing a good job?

We bemoan the "blue wall of silence" and other instances where workers cover for the worst among them. Working in a "go along, get along" environment frustrates any ambitious, innovative employee.

So, Amazon has created a workplace where innovation is allowed to flourish, where speaking your mind, and even criticizing bad ideas is encouraged, and where poor performers are identified, and pushed out.

And, the company has thrived as a result.

So in your scenario, do you see the opportunity for some ambitious young executive to sabotage people who may not be poor performers at all?

If someone isn't doing their job well, there are all kinds of ways to make that known. Encouraging execs to tattle behind people's backs seems a little much.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Pretty clear that YankeeFan hasn't read the story. He should read it and get back to us.

 

[TheSportsPredictor]

As you note, no one is forced to work at/for Amazon, and they know going in that it's a tough work environment.

But, here's the other thing, wouldn't you want to know if one of your direct reports wasn't doing a good job?

We bemoan the "blue wall of silence" and other instances where workers cover for the worst among them. Working in a "go along, get along" environment frustrates any ambitious, innovative employee.

So, Amazon has created a workplace where innovation is allowed to flourish, where speaking your mind, and even criticizing bad ideas is encouraged, and where poor performers are identified, and pushed out.

And, the company has thrived as a result.

Or perhaps in spite of.

 

[YankeeFan]

Or perhaps in spite of.

Yeah, Apple and Amazon both just got lucky.

 

[BitterYoungMatador2]

Do you think these two would have preferred union representation, where their contributions, job assignments, and wages would have been largely tied to their seniority, and not their contributions:

Even relatively junior employees can make major contributions. The new delivery-by-drone project announced in 2013, for example, was coinvented by a low-level engineer named Daniel Buchmueller.

Last August, Stephenie Landry, an operations executive, joined in discussions about how to shorten delivery times and developed an idea for rushing goods to urban customers in an hour or less. One hundred eleven days later, she was in Brooklyn directing the start of the new service, Prime Now.

I was referring to the warehouse workers who are dealing with Upton Sinclair-like conditions.

 

[TheSportsPredictor]

Yeah, Apple and Amazon both just got lucky.

Maybe. Plenty of other successful companies that don't treat their employees like trash.

 

[LongTimeListener]

YF -- have you read it? Did you read this?


A woman who had thyroid cancer was given a low performance rating after she returned from treatment. She says her manager explained that while she was out, her peers were accomplishing a great deal. Another employee who miscarried twins left for a business trip the day after she had surgery. “I’m sorry, the work is still going to need to get done,” she said her boss told her. “From where you are in life, trying to start a family, I don’t know if this is the right place for you.”

A woman who had breast cancer was told that she was put on a “performance improvement plan” — Amazon code for “you’re in danger of being fired” — because “difficulties” in her “personal life” had interfered with fulfilling her work goals. Their accounts echoed others from workers who had suffered health crises and felt they had also been judged harshly instead of being given time to recover.

A former human resources executive said she was required to put a woman who had recently returned after undergoing serious surgery, and another who had just had a stillborn child, on performance improvement plans, accounts that were corroborated by a co-worker still at Amazon. “What kind of company do we want to be?” the executive recalled asking her bosses.

Do you find this necessary? Do you think Amazon wouldn't be Amazon without dehumanizing these women?

 

[JackReacher]

I'm curious; is this story going to make anyone here stop using Amazon?

 

[Mr. Sunshine]

I'm curious; is this story going to make anyone here stop using Amazon?

Strongly worded posts more than make up for that awesome Prime membership.

 

[Ace]

I'm curious; is this story going to make anyone here stop using Amazon?

I rarely use Amazon. Probably use them even less.

It's one thing to expect people to work hard. It's another to treat ill people unfairly, shove people aside and have no sense of human decency.

 

[LongTimeListener]

I'm curious; is this story going to make anyone here stop using Amazon?

If the stuff about the warehouses/labor camps didn't do it, I doubt it would move the needle to know about the travails of workers who can go anywhere and whose stock has almost doubled in the past year.

 

[User 11148]

Maybe they should come up with some thing akin to the carbon-offsets play such that if you buy something from Amazon, you spend a corresponding amount targeted at human decency.

I bought my son a laptop through Amazon the other day. Wonder how much, on the margin, I'd need to spend at NotAmazon to make up for the decency deficit.

 

[Mr. Sunshine]

I rarely use Amazon. Probably use them even less.

It's one thing to expect people to work hard. It's another to treat ill people unfairly, shove people aside and have no sense of human decency.

#newsroomstoo