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Wingman,

The guy said I might win awards if I cared about the product. I was merely pointing out that I have, thus furthering my point that if you're going to go after someone here, you oughta know something about them.

He stated an opinion that I responded to with facts. Nothing more.
 
No it doesn't. Disagree with me, fine. But if you want to be personal, don't hide behind a screen name. That's my point.

I love how this thread has turned into a diatribe on how much of an ass I am. Beautiful.
 
Let me explain the "You've clearly never read me" bit, because that's where we went Oscar Bravo here.

My intent with that was in referece to me not caring about the full content of what I do. Having read my stuff would show differently, that I try to write strong from top to bottom with the understanding that some readers aren't going to make it to the end because they have 30-second attention spans.

You guys took that line as me basically saying I'm the greatest thing ever, which I know I'm not. One of the reasons I come here is to pick off the ideas and thoughts people have.

One of the deals of not knowing people: You take them literally. I'm one of the more unassuming people you'll meet. I, in fact, hate everything I do at first. I don't think I'm some amazingly perfect writer, far from it.
 
....And thus was balance restored to the world, and camaraderie and peace prevailed once again in the quiet twilight dell in which the sporting writers gathered to make their happy magic...
 
Chad,

It's obvious that you care about the craft, awards or no. That's part of the reason why you're posting here. Someone asked a question, and you wanted to share your approach, and that's good. It's a reasonable, rational, and in some ways typical, approach. I happen to disagree with it, but that's fine too. I'm sure you've done fine work, but just understand that you have to have a thick skin if you post here, either under your real name or an anonymous handle, and getting angry or flip or quoting your resume isn't going to help. There are several people on this site (including on this thread) who have won, or been finalists for, national magazine awards or a Pulitzer. Several who have been anthologized in BASW, or written widely-praised books of their own. None of them cited these facts in an attempt to shoot down your argument, and I don't think any of them assumed, as you said, that everyone's situation is the same. To be angry with them for debating you while remaining anonymous is like an NFL player agreeing to play in Canada and then getting angry there are only three downs in Canadian football. That's something you have to accept when you log on to SportsJournalists.com. People make things personal around here. And the SportsJournalists.com chorus, for the most part, appreciates humility. You've shown some now, clarified yourself, and as Mr. jgmacg said, all is right once again in the world.

As for the discussion, maybe endings don't keep people reading, and are thus, less important. But as a beat writer, an ending can be especially good at getting a reader to come back and read you tomorrow. Buster Olney and Dave Sheinin, who are are/were as good at writing gamers as anyone in the business, were especially good at endings. Barry Svrluga is very good at it now. Rarely do they just let a story fizzle out. As a reader, a great ending might leave me with the feeling that I want to come back tomorrow and read that writer again because of the insight I've gained. One of the more helpful things I've learned here is to always think about where the story is going. A great lead, yes, gets the reader in the door, but then everything else can build to a strong finish. The advice often thrown around here, especially by wise souls like Jones, Friend of the Friendless and jgmacg, isn't always poster specific, and isn't always about how to craft the perfect 15-incher, even if that's what's being discussed. It's general advice about the art of storytelling. And it's great advice for anyone to keep in mind if they aspire to write stories larger than 15 or 20 inches. That's the point they're making. Writing a strong lead on a gamer is the first and most important lesson to learn. But eventually, you take the next step (even under deadline) and try to write great leads with even better finishes. If you've already mastered the art of getting the readers to the party (your analogy), as a writer, your next goal should be to make certain that ther last drink, last dance, or last kiss is just as memorable so they can't wait for the next invite to arrive on their doorstep.
 
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Double Down said:
If you've already mastered the art of getting the readers to the party (your analogy), as a writer, your next goal should be to make certain that ther last drink, last dance, or last kiss is just as memorable so they can't wait for the next invite to arrive on their doorstep.

DoubleDown is much too modest to say it, but this sentence should make it clear: He's another one of those wise folks anyone with questions about the craft should be listening to.
 
Usually, I find the perfect last call moment for the party. Last night it was Kelly Shoppach saying "This team always has a chance."

I do that normally, I just don't go in planning the end of the bash to be sweeter than the start. I want them to relate to each other some, kind of like a circle so round you can putt in it. I just want the start of the circle to make my reader want to putt to it.
 
I don't like a ____ said. ending either, but it's more of a personal preference than anything.
 
i was doing some brainstorming on this and i think i had an epiphany.

a big number of the youngest writers have to tackle so many duties when they graduate from college. crafting a story is far from your only duty. if you're not an f-ing stud, a lot of times, you start out at a small paper, doing layout, editing wire, etc.

and i know from my experience paginating and editing, when i get a wire story and i have to shorten it — CHOP goes the ending, especially on gamers, previews, spot news and things of that nature.

now, most of the time, you try to only cut the most cuttable stuff. but i'm a realist. there're deadlines, late-breaking things. sometimes, there just isn't the time to edit a story the same way you would if you had all day — even moreso if you're at a small paper, understaffed, doing layout, handling calls and writing your own stories.

long point short, maybe we're fostering a certain demographic of writers who — for obvious reasons — value the tops more than the bottoms.

i'm sure we all benefit from the pointers handed out by vets in the biz, but it's hard to justify cherishing the last half of a story when, on the previous shift, the industry forces you — in two minutes or less — to hack off half the wire story from the late-night dodgers game you need to lede the roundup.
 
Diabeetus said:
I don't like a ____ said. ending either, but it's more of a personal preference than anything.

Never did I envision that question would spur this. ...

Even with a deadline, though, you've got to learn to put your best game on for any article. The few readers out there deserve your best. It's not that hard to give it to them. Sure, 35 minutes is a *****, but in time, it's possible to be proud of everything you write. I think we've all had to do it with high school football to extra-inning baseball games. It just takes time.
 
DavidPalmer4Prez said:
I hate the 'he said' ending as well. If I have a short ending quote I always make it. Said Jones, "Amazing quote."

You really like beginning a sentence with "Said"? That always looks wrong for some reason, though I can't pinpoint a particular reason why.
 
bigpern23 said:
Split quote is way overdone. I'll pretty much only use it for emphasis on certain parts of the quote and I do so very rarely. I could probably count on one hand how many times I've done it in the last five years.

Personally, I hate them with a passion. I think I can count on one hand the times I've ever used a split quote without some editor shoving it down my throat on a story I wrote.

Once in a rare while when you really want to showcase a powerful part of a quote, I'll tolerate it. But a steady diet gets a serious edit if I'm the one with the red pen or at the keyboard.
 
Nathan Scott Phillips said:
DavidPalmer4Prez said:
I hate the 'he said' ending as well. If I have a short ending quote I always make it. Said Jones, "Amazing quote."

You really like beginning a sentence with "Said"? That always looks wrong for some reason, though I can't pinpoint a particular reason why.

I don't like that one, either. I know it's correct, but it's just ugly to me.
 
How about when the sentence is about Boris Said?

As for split quotes: They're dishonest -- poetic license gone amok. I've never won any Ohio writing awards, but I can say split quotes are never a good idea. The way they're written makes them sound as if the speaker paused where the "he said" is inserted, which, I've learned from first-hand experience, is virtually never the case.

Besides, it's more effective this way:

"These are the kind of games that make me want to retire," Torre said.

Than this way:

"These are the kind of games," Torre said, "that make me want to retire."
 
mike311gd said:
Never did I envision that question would spur this. ...

Even with a deadline, though, you've got to learn to put your best game on for any article. The few readers out there deserve your best. It's not that hard to give it to them. Sure, 35 minutes is a *****, but in time, it's possible to be proud of everything you write. I think we've all had to do it with high school football to extra-inning baseball games. It just takes time.

There may be times that you're most proud of how you're able to get the point across in a story that has such a tight deadline. I don't have a recent gamer to use as an example, but one story I'm proud of is a piece I wrote the day after Virginia Tech. It was about the shooting's effects on my county, even though my county is 300 miles away and not in Virginia.

Localizing a national story for a community weekly on deadline while I'm trying to paginate and edit everything else that day? That made that piece one of my favorites this year. I'm not saying it was award-worthy or even particularly great. But the simple act of stepping up to the plate in itself can be its own reward.
 
Jones said:
I'm not a fan of the split quote. I think it's overdone.

Understand that way of thinking, but I'm firmly in the "don't end it on an attribution" camp, whether you end on a strong quote or a lesser one.
 

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