Worst Hall of Fame ballot ever? Worst Hall of Fame ballot ever.

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spnited said:
Mizzougrad96 said:
I agree the "presentation' aspect of how the NFL does it is pretty stupid, but I like the idea of "experts" discussing and arguing the merits of certain players.


And don't forget they are required to have at least 6 inductess a year .. even if there aren't six deserving guys.

Yeah, I think for baseball, you would definitely have to change that in most years.

I just think it's ridiculous that if you cover baseball for 10 years, you get a HOF vote for life. How about you get one until you're done covering baseball?
 
Anyone who says Barry Larkin belongs in the "Hall of Very Good" loses credibility with me. Maybe he does if you judge him against the modern shortstop. But judged against his peers, he was most definitely elite.
 
Hoo boy! Barry Stanton is participating in a live chat on ESPN.com, and has said he will explain his vote.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof11/news/story?id=5988529
 
Crash said:
Anyone who says Barry Larkin belongs in the "Hall of Very Good" loses credibility with me. Maybe he does if you judge him against the modern shortstop. But judged against his peers, he was most definitely elite.

Larkin is borderline, but should eventually get in. I still think there's another Reds shortstop who should get in before him (Concepcion).
 
So let me get this right Mizzou: Tony Perez doesn't belong but Dave Concepcion does?
Makes no sense to me.
 
Mizzou, the theory on why you keep the vote for life once you've qualified is that you will be voting on players you covered, but that newer members may not have, giving your vote some perspective beyond raw numbers. Of course there's an obvious shelf life factor there, but the fact is, as someout out of baseball writing (and all other kinds) for over five years, I did cover guys on this year's ballot other voters didn't because they were too young to be baseball writers at the time.
 
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Anyone who raises a hue and cry over Blyleven is clearly too emotionally tied to this.

Whether he makes it or not, he's a borderline candidate. Just like Jim Rice (who made it), just like Ron Santo (who didn't). I know I wouldn't vote for Blyleven if given the chance.

Someone throwing B.J. Surhoff a bone on one HOF ballot isn't going to change that. Voters do that all the time, mostly as a token of appreciation for a player who was cooperative to them back in the day.
 
secretariat said:
Congratulations, Barry Stanton, news editor at ESPN. You win the prize.

The people on Barry's ballot: Jack Morris, Edgar Martinez, Tino Martinez, Don Mattingly and B.J. Surhoff.

Missing from Barry's ballot: Everyone else, including Robby Alomar and Bert Blyleven.
BJ Surhoff? What a moron.
 
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/surhob.01.shtml

If that's a Hall of Fame career, Lord help us all.
 
I cannot imagine on which planet Dave Concepcion is a Hall of Famer.

Career OPS: .679
Career OPS+: 88

He had 2,326 career hits.

Same as ... wait for it ... B.J. Surhoff.

He stole two more bases than Tony Gwynn.

Career WAR, Dave Concepcion: 33.6
Career WAR, B.J. Surhoff: 34.4

But Mizzou thinks that Concepcion is a Hall of Famer, but the guy who voted for Surhoff should have his vote taken away.
 
Bubbler said:
Anyone who raises a hue and cry over Blyleven is clearly too emotionally tied to this.

Quite the opposite. The Blyleven case has been objectively made over and over and over again.

It comes down to this:

IP: 4,970
ERA: 3.30

That is out-****ing-standing.
 
Bert Blyleven, career WAR: 90.1
Jack Morris, career WAR: 39.3
Greg Maddux, career WAR: 96.8
Don Sutton, career WAR: 70.8
 
**** Whitman said:
I cannot imagine on which planet Dave Concepcion is a Hall of Famer.

Career OPS: .679
Career OPS+: 88

He had 2,326 career hits.

Same as ... wait for it ... B.J. Surhoff.

He stole two more bases than Tony Gwynn.

Career WAR, Dave Concepcion: 33.6
Career WAR, B.J. Surhoff: 34.4

But Mizzou thinks that Concepcion is a Hall of Famer, but the guy who voted for Surhoff should have his vote taken away.

Concepcion was the best SS in the NL during the 70s. If you think batting stats can measure the kind of player he was, then I don't have an answer for you.

If you think BJ Surhoff is a tenth of the player Concepcion was, please go slap yourself for being that stupid.
 
Barry's response (Predictably, he misreads all the vitriol and thinks it's all about Surhoff):

In 1976, I was just out of college and working my first job at the Port Chester (NY) Daily Item, covering a Babe Ruth 13-year-old tournament. The starting pitcher for the team from Rye was supposed to be their star, a big kid named Rich Surhoff, whose father **** had played for the NY Knicks in the 1950s. Surhoff did, in fact, make it t the major leagues, spending nine games with the Philadelphia Phillies. But that day, the pitcher's younger brother was the one who caught my attention. He was only 12 years old and playing with the older kids, playing shortstop. On consecutive plays, I saw him range behind third base to the left field line and throw out a runner, then range the other way all the way behind first to catch a tricky pop that eluded a teammate.

After that game, I told BJ I thought that someday, I'd be watching him in the major leagues. For the next few years, I watched BJ become a local star at Rye HS, covering his games occasionally. And I remember telling him then that someday, I'd be voting for him for the Hall of Fame. Surhoff, went on to a career at UNC, became the No. 1 pick of the draft, played on our first Olympic baseball team. He had a very good (though not great) career for 18 years in MLB. And then there he was on my ballot (I've been a BBWAA member since 1985 and have had a Hall of Fame vote since '95). So I remembered that promise (though I honestly can't say if BJ does) and checked the box.

The reaction to that astounds me. I expected people who didn’t know the story to question that vote. But the sheer level of nastiness, the anger, amazes me. I really didn't think BJ would get elected. I'd be surprised if he got another vote besides mine. And I'm fine with that. BJ was a very good player and a good guy (check out the work he's done for autism, sparked by his autistic son). He earned the fulfillment of that 35-year-old promise. And who, exactly did that hurt? If voting for BJ cost someone who deserved entry, I wouldn't have done it. And if the rules said that everybody who got one vote got in, then I definitely wouldn't have done it. But it didn’t.
 
Mizzougrad96 said:
**** Whitman said:
I cannot imagine on which planet Dave Concepcion is a Hall of Famer.

Career OPS: .679
Career OPS+: 88

He had 2,326 career hits.

Same as ... wait for it ... B.J. Surhoff.

He stole two more bases than Tony Gwynn.

Career WAR, Dave Concepcion: 33.6
Career WAR, B.J. Surhoff: 34.4

But Mizzou thinks that Concepcion is a Hall of Famer, but the guy who voted for Surhoff should have his vote taken away.

Concepcion was the best SS in the NL during the 70s. If you think batting stats can measure the kind of player he was, then I don't have an answer for you.

What does measure it then? Getting to be Pete Rose's teammate? Maybe Darrel Chaney should be in the HOF, too.
 
The vote for Surhoff DOESN'T matter. There are a ton of voters. Some of them make outlier votes. Some people vote for Donald Duck for president, too. It doesn't matter, so long as everything comes out in the wash, and it typically does.

There is no reason to change the process because a few numbnuts get their hands on ballots. Because the rules ensure that far more knowledgeable baseball people get ballots than numbnuts. You don't change the process that works just to try to exclude a few outlier ballots.
 
Yeah, as long as he didn't vote for Surhoff at the exclusion of someone else (and it doesn't seem he did), it's not that big a deal.
 
**** Whitman said:
Mizzougrad96 said:
**** Whitman said:
I cannot imagine on which planet Dave Concepcion is a Hall of Famer.

Career OPS: .679
Career OPS+: 88

He had 2,326 career hits.

Same as ... wait for it ... B.J. Surhoff.

He stole two more bases than Tony Gwynn.

Career WAR, Dave Concepcion: 33.6
Career WAR, B.J. Surhoff: 34.4

But Mizzou thinks that Concepcion is a Hall of Famer, but the guy who voted for Surhoff should have his vote taken away.

Concepcion was the best SS in the NL during the 70s. If you think batting stats can measure the kind of player he was, then I don't have an answer for you.

What does measure it then? Getting to be Pete Rose's teammate? Maybe Darrel Chaney should be in the HOF, too.

If you're the best player in your league at your position for a decade, you merit consideration. He's a hell of a lot more deserving than Tony Perez. He made nine all-star games. He won five Gold Gloves.
 

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