Will This Have the NCAA Sweating Just A Bit?

[Flying Headbutt]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/24/AR2006102400911.html

Twelve days before the Orange Bowl brawl, Republican Rep. Bill Thomas wrote, as chairman of the tax-writing Ways and Means Committee, an eight-page letter to the president of the National Collegiate Athletic Association, asking awkward questions. Thomas wonders how, or whether, big-time college sports programs, which generate billions of tax-exempt dollars -- CBS pays the NCAA an annual average of $545 million, mainly for the rights to televise the March Madness basketball tournament -- further the purposes for which educational institutions are granted tax-exempt status.

Lots of ramifications could come from this. Thoughts?

 

[PeteyPirate]

I normally like Will, but he does the same thing that other people do and says things like "only 55 percent of football players and 38 percent of basketball players graduate." Guess what? The 55 percent is well above the overall graduation rate for people who go to college, and the 38 percent might be about equal.

 

[heyabbott]

I normally like Will, but he does the same thing that other people do and says things like "only 55 percent of football players and 38 percent of basketball players graduate." Guess what? The 55 percent is well above the overall graduation rate for people who go to college, and the 38 percent might be about equal.

I think the appropriate comparison isn't football player graduation rate vs. all people who enter college, but football player graduation rate compared to the entering class of the institution the player attends.

 

[PeteyPirate]

I normally like Will, but he does the same thing that other people do and says things like "only 55 percent of football players and 38 percent of basketball players graduate." Guess what? The 55 percent is well above the overall graduation rate for people who go to college, and the 38 percent might be about equal.

I think the appropriate comparison isn't football player graduation rate vs. all people who enter college, but football player graduation rate compared to the entering class of the institution the player attends.

That is another good point, but Will brings up the graduation rate for all football players and basketball players.

 

[Freelance Hack]

I normally like Will, but he does the same thing that other people do and says things like "only 55 percent of football players and 38 percent of basketball players graduate." Guess what? The 55 percent is well above the overall graduation rate for people who go to college, and the 38 percent might be about equal.

OK, but most D I-A football players and most major D-I college basketball players go to school on a full scholarship. They don't have to scratch and claw their way through school by working part/full-time jobs or praying for grants and loans to come through.

Make it an apples to apples comparison. Compare rates for full-ride student-athletes to rates for full-ride students and I'm sure the gap will be wide.

Then the debate focuses on this question: Are universities investing in the student-athletes for their education, or are they investing in student-athletes to make more money? If the answer is the latter, then it's time for the tax man to come to Big State U.

 

[PeteyPirate]

I normally like Will, but he does the same thing that other people do and says things like "only 55 percent of football players and 38 percent of basketball players graduate." Guess what? The 55 percent is well above the overall graduation rate for people who go to college, and the 38 percent might be about equal.

OK, but most D I-A football players and most major D-I college basketball players go to school on a full scholarship. They don't have to scratch and claw their way through school by working part/full-time jobs or praying for grants and loans to come through.

Make it an apples to apples comparison. Compare rates for full-ride student-athletes to rates for full-ride students and I'm sure the gap will be wide.

Then the debate focuses on this question: Are universities investing in the student-athletes for their education, or are they investing in student-athletes to make more money? If the answer is the latter, then it's time for the tax man to come to Big State U.

Scientifically, that would not make sense. People who have academic full rides are almost certainly more prepared for college than people who have athletic full rides, who would probably be reflective of the student population at large. The fact that their college is paid for in full does not mean that they do not spend 30-40 hours a week training/traveling for their particular sport like the people "working part/full-time jobs or praying for grants and loans to come through." If you want a student loan, you can get a student loan.

I'm not saying to feel sorry for athletes. I'm not even saying an athletic scholarship is a good thing. I just think Will is spouting off a number that contradicts his point and your comparison is not sound.

 

[Freelance Hack]

How would that not make sense? The university has as much invested in one as the other.

And if you think that a university invests in people who are not prepared for college, then doesn't that make the point that these endeavors are business relarted and not related to academics?

 

[Armchair_QB]

Of course the money football and basketball players make doesn't line the pockets of a fatcat owner or university president. That money pays for all the non-revenue sports that wouldn't have the funds to exist were it not for the football and men's basketball teams.

 

[Starman]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/24/AR2006102400911.html

Twelve days before the Orange Bowl brawl, Republican Rep. Bill Thomas wrote, as chairman of the tax-writing Ways and Means Committee, an eight-page letter to the president of the National Collegiate Athletic Association, asking awkward questions. Thomas wonders how, or whether, big-time college sports programs, which generate billions of tax-exempt dollars -- CBS pays the NCAA an annual average of $545 million, mainly for the rights to televise the March Madness basketball tournament -- further the purposes for which educational institutions are granted tax-exempt status.

Lots of ramifications could come from this. Thoughts?

The NCAA has nothing to worry about as long as bigtime Division I luxury boxes are stuffed full of freeloading politicians every Saturday.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

Of course the money football and basketball players make doesn't line the pockets of a fatcat owner or university president. That money pays for all the non-revenue sports that wouldn't have the funds to exist were it not for the football and men's basketball teams.

Anyway, Will's got a big old rock in front of his argument and it's called Tarkanian v. NCAA, and the Soo-preme Court ruled that the NCAA and its member schools can run things pretty much the way they want to.

 

[micropolitan guy]

I would not want to be Bill Thomas' campaign manager when his opponent starts alleging that "Bill Thomas is trying to kill USC football/UCLA football/UCLA basketball" by "taxing the NCAA into submission."

 

[Freelance Hack]

I would not want to be Bill Thomas' campaign manager when his opponent starts alleging that "Bill Thomas is trying to kill USC football/UCLA football/UCLA basketball" by "taxing the NCAA into submission."

Bill Thomas is retiring at the end of this term.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

He can coach at Miami!

 

[micropolitan guy]

Bill Thomas is retiring at the end of this term.

That explains a lot. The courage of his convictions, now that he doesn't have to run for re-election.

 

[DisembodiedOwlHead]

These tax-free sports programs keep fighting in court to keep their salaries and other normally public documents secret. Tell them they either open the books or start paying taxes, and I think we'd find out Joepa's salary before breakfast.

 

[micropolitan guy]

Pennsylvania must be different than my state.

The coaches at the public universities are all state employees (duh). A copy of their contract is available for the asking, even though sometimes you have to file an FOI request (to give the school some cover if the coach complains).

The budget is also readily available from the school (often with an FOI, again for cover) or at the U.S. government site on gender equity reporting. On the web site it's not completely itemized, but spending and revenue for each program is detailed.

Must be some parts of the country take the sunshine laws more seriously than others.

 

[Just_An_SID]

Since I work in the industry, I have many thoughts on this issue.

First, student-athletes on scholarship have to pay taxes on the scholarship, so it isn't like everything is exempt.

If the government wants to treat athletics like a business, then let us act accordingly. How many companies would fund a division with between $500,000 to a million a year with practically no revenue coming in from the investment? That's what just about every school does with women's basketball.

How many businesses are told that they have to take on additional debt because the percentage of males-females is not proportionale to the male-female ratio in their area (like athletic departments are required to do -- take on additional women's sports to make sure that the participation numbers are equal to the male-female ratio in the student body.

Contrary to the public belief, most athletic departments lose money. And, if it weren't for money from student fees, then probably 90% of athletic departments would lose big-time amounts of money each year.

I think this will change your view of athletics.

 

[wickedwritah]

Penn State is not a state university in the true sense of the word. It was chartered by the state 150 years ago, but now it receives about 10 percent of its funding (if that) from Harrisburg. That's the argument Graham Spanier and others are making in keeping Paterno's salary on the down low.

 

[dog428]

I normally like Will, but he does the same thing that other people do and says things like "only 55 percent of football players and 38 percent of basketball players graduate." Guess what? The 55 percent is well above the overall graduation rate for people who go to college, and the 38 percent might be about equal.

OK, but most D I-A football players and most major D-I college basketball players go to school on a full scholarship. They don't have to scratch and claw their way through school by working part/full-time jobs or praying for grants and loans to come through.

Make it an apples to apples comparison. Compare rates for full-ride student-athletes to rates for full-ride students and I'm sure the gap will be wide.

Then the debate focuses on this question: Are universities investing in the student-athletes for their education, or are they investing in student-athletes to make more money? If the answer is the latter, then it's time for the tax man to come to Big State U.

Whoa now. Those football and basketball players put in as much work during the average week as the normal student. Just because they're at practice and the other guy is at a fast food restaurant doesn't mean those jobs aren't equal. The athlete has landed a gig that requires specialized skills. It pays him for working just like the restaurant pays the normal student.

Yes, athletes have some benefits that the normal students don't in study aides and whatnot. But don't act as if there's this great divide in hours worked between the two. There's not. There would be one between the guy who's on academic scholarship, since he's basically going to class and then home to study, and the athlete, who's going to class then off to practice for two hours, film study and meetings for another two hours and then home to study.

Athletics provides an education for a boatload of kids who would not normally be able to attend college. In addition, those kids have someone standing over them, constantly making sure they're doing what they should be in the classroom and providing them all the help they need.

Yeah, you can look at it as the school only doing that so the kids will remain eligible and the university can rake in the cash, but it's still getting done.