Where does Brady rank?

[Mr. Sunshine]

Because Jack Reacher needs something to help him pass the time at work this week, let's reignite this debate. Keeping it to modern-era QBs (post-merger), I say Brady is, AT WORST, No. 2 all time.

What say you?

 

[schiezainc]

It's an interesting discussion. I say you put him below Montana and above everyone else.
The interesting points though are this: Brady could have won his SIXTH ring tonight if the Pats defense had held up in those two Giant games. He put them in position to win both those games. How much do you put on his for the 4-2 record?
That being said, hard to knock Brady down a peg or two because their reputation is trash right now. This ring helps them a little bit but their accomplishments will always be questioned a little.
So, yeah, Montana first, Brady second.

 

[outofplace]

It's an interesting discussion. I say you put him below Montana and above everyone else.
The interesting points though are this: Brady could have won his SIXTH ring tonight if the Pats defense had held up in those two Giant games. He put them in position to win both those games. How much do you put on his for the 4-2 record?
That being said, hard to knock Brady down a peg or two because their reputation is trash right now. This ring helps them a little bit but their accomplishments will always be questioned a little.
So, yeah, Montana first, Brady second.

And Brady could be completely without rings just as easily. He was outstanding tonight, but his team was handed the victory by a lousy coaching decision.

 

[Mr. Sunshine]

He stumbled into four rings. OVERRATED!

 

[zagoshe]

I have always thought the whole "Montana rings" argument was overrated and always loss some luster when you consider the 49ers won another ring with essentially the same team and a different QB the next year after they traded him.

 

[Mr. Sunshine]

Young had been the starter for a while after Montana's back injury and had lost the two previous NFC title games. Young was no Montana.

 

[zagoshe]

Wait, greatest upset ever is that OOP didn't give us his list of greatest QBs ever..

1. Terry Bradshaw
2. Big Ben
3. Bubby Brister
4. Dan Marino, cause, you know, he's from Pittsburgh
5. Neil O'Donnell
6. Joe Namath, hell Beaver Falls might as well be Pittsburgh
7. Joe Montana, the Mon Valley ain't so far away
8. Johnny Unitas, the pride of St. Justin's in Pittsburgh
9. Scott Zolak, see No. 7
10. Bruce Gradkowski, you ever hear him talk? He is 100 percent yinzer!!

 

[outofplace]

He stumbled into four rings. OVERRATED!

Nobody said that. I certainly didn't.

What I was saying to schiez is you can't talk about how close Brady and the Patriots came to winning more championships without considering how close they were to losing each time as well. The appropriate perspective is to evaluate the team and the quarterback based on what they did, not what could have happened.

 

[JC]

So If Lynch runs it in that end that effects Brady's legacy?

You guys are better than that.

 

[outofplace]

So If Lynch runs it in that end that effects Brady's legacy?

You guys are better than that.

I don't think so. I don't think anybody posted that, JC. I'm saying that schiez's point regarding how close Brady is to having two more rings doesn't hold up because the Patriots have also come very close to losing the Super Bowls they won and that is especially true of tonight's game.

 

[schiezainc]

Nobody said that. I certainly didn't.

What I was saying to schiez is you can't talk about how close Brady and the Patriots came to winning more championships without considering how close they were to losing each time as well. The appropriate perspective is to evaluate the team and the quarterback based on what they did, not what could have happened.

I think it's appropriate if we're talking about Brady vs. Montana as Brady put the team in position to win Super Bowls SIX TIMES and came away with four rings. He completed 74 percent of his passes tonight and rallied them from a 10-point deficit in the fourth quarter against one of the best defenses in recent memory.
Yes, the Pats could have easily lost all four of them but BRADY, as in the person we're talking about here, put them in position to win six times.
I still think Montana is the greatest QB of all-time but I can't see how you put anyone above Brady in that Number 2 slot. I really don't.

 

[schiezainc]

And I also think that point needs to be brought up because, most likely, Peyton has to be in this conversation somewhere in terms of the top 10 at least right? And what knocks Manning down is his performance in big games. Brady is virtually untouched in big game performances. He's got virtually every playoff/SB passing record. He did it without a true No. 1 running back for most of his run and with serviceable but definitely not HOF WRs as well as good, but not great, defenses.
Just saying. Love him or hate him. He's earned his spot in history.

 

[schiezainc]

FYI:

In Super Bowls:
Montana-> 83-122 (68%), 1142 yards, 11 TD, 0 INT, 127.8 Rating, 4-0 Record
Brady-> 164-247 (68%), 1605 yards, 13 TD, 4 INT, 95.3 Rating, 4-2 Record
Bradshaw-> 49-84 (58%), 932 yards, 9 TD, 4 INT, 112.8 Rating, 4-0 Record

That's pretty insane. Hard to think anyone will ever touch Montana's line there. That's incredible.

 

[steveu]

ESPN just tried to anoint Brady the best of all time. Hold er right there. Play in four Super Bowls, win four Super Bowls. I still think Joe Montana is the gold standard and Bradshaw's right there. Brady's damn good, don't get me wrong.

 

[schiezainc]

It's easy to say Brady is the best of all-time, just like it would have been easy to say these Seahawks had the best defense of all-time if they won this game and just like it was easy to say the Ravens had the best defense of all-time a few years ago. That's just what people do. They want to say the current point of discussion is the best of all-time.
Brady is very clearly No. 2. I haven't seen anyone argue this yet. I don't know if he could ever pass Montana. Not with the 4-2 record. Hell, not even if he somehow gets the Pats back here next year and they win it again (Which will be incredibly difficult.)
Montana was simply too clutch in the biggest game of the year. 11 TDs and ZERO INTs? Seriously? That's ridiculous.
I think this is more of a debate if Brady had already gotten or gets a fifth ring but, still, I think there's Montana and everyone else.
Better question: Does this put Belichick as the No. 1 coach of all-time?

 

[Tarheel316]

It's easy to say Brady is the best of all-time, just like it would have been easy to say these Seahawks had the best defense of all-time if they won this game and just like it was easy to say the Ravens had the best defense of all-time a few years ago. That's just what people do. They want to say the current point of discussion is the best of all-time.
Brady is very clearly No. 2. I haven't seen anyone argue this yet. I don't know if he could ever pass Montana. Not with the 4-2 record. Hell, not even if he somehow gets the Pats back here next year and they win it again (Which will be incredibly difficult.)
Montana was simply too clutch in the biggest game of the year. 11 TDs and ZERO INTs? Seriously? That's ridiculous.
I think this is more of a debate if Brady had already gotten or gets a fifth ring but, still, I think there's Montana and everyone else.
Better question: Does this put Belichick as the No. 1 coach of all-time?

If you mean the whole history of the NFL, Vince Lombardi is the No. 1 coach.

 

[93Devil]

What Belichick does without Brady will be his barometer.

Gibbs might be the best coach with Landry right there. They did it with different groups and different QBs.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Recognizing there are other reasons to pick Montana (like the TD-INT ratio), I don't like giving him credit for 4-0 vs. 4-2 in Super Bowls for Brady. That's taking points away from Brady because Montana fell even shorter twice.

 

[JackReacher]

What about Manning, tho!

 

[Mr. Sunshine]

What about Manning, tho!

Can't ignore Eli's two rings.