Two Years On: Obamacare

[Flying Headbutt]

Maybe I'm more cynical than many of you, but I'm almost certain that the high court has become too partisan and political that it's going to be another 5-4 decision on partisan lines. Which way it falls will depend on Kennedy, but I can see this getting struck down. But I'll totally admit to being cynical.

And Steve, really, you want to blame Michelle Obama's "let's move" program for far-left liberal governments going ape**** over happy meals and the like? I think her personal investment in the program is entirely well-meaning, and completely unrelated to over-reaching governments, whether they're the ones who restrict happy meals or tax you for buying plastic bags or whatever.

 

[Stitch]

Reagan was a commie for supporting the President's Physical Fitness Test.

 

[old_tony]

Maybe I'm more cynical than many of you, but I'm almost certain that the high court has become too partisan and political that it's going to be another 5-4 decision on partisan lines. Which way it falls will depend on Kennedy, but I can see this getting struck down. But I'll totally admit to being cynical.

And Steve, really, you want to blame Michelle Obama's "let's move" program for far-left liberal governments going ape**** over happy meals and the like? I think her personal investment in the program is entirely well-meaning, and completely unrelated to over-reaching governments, whether they're the ones who restrict happy meals or tax you for buying plastic bags or whatever.

A lot of really bad laws and codes started out with great intentions. Too many people have ignored the laws of unintended consequences.

 

[Starman]

So, never try to accomplish anything good, because it's possible there could be negative consequences. OK.

 

[Stitch]

If anyone thinks Michelle Obama has any influence over public policy in San Francisco, they are kidding themselves.

 

[old_tony]

So, never try to accomplish anything good, because it's possible there could be negative consequences. OK.

When lefties try to limit freedom, the consequences are always negative.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

So, never try to accomplish anything good, because it's possible there could be negative consequences. OK.

When lefties try to limit freedom, the consequences are always negative.

I'll use a saying that righties use whenever I point out how companies screw over workers or banks screw over their customers: People always have the freedom to move to another country.

 

[old_tony]

So, never try to accomplish anything good, because it's possible there could be negative consequences. OK.

When lefties try to limit freedom, the consequences are always negative.

I'll use a saying that righties use whenever I point out how companies screw over workers or banks screw over their customers: People always have the freedom to move to another country.

But since I'm for more freedom, why would I move to countries with less freedom? The left, on the other hand, is for more government and less freedom. There are numerous such countries they could move to rather than ruin this one.

 

[old_tony]

And, let's review again how what Dems told us would be less than a trillion dollars will actually be more than $2 trillion while taking billions and billions out of Medicare.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/cbo-obamacare-would-cost-over-2-trillion

 

[Baron Scicluna]

So, never try to accomplish anything good, because it's possible there could be negative consequences. OK.

When lefties try to limit freedom, the consequences are always negative.

I'll use a saying that righties use whenever I point out how companies screw over workers or banks screw over their customers: People always have the freedom to move to another country.

But since I'm for more freedom, why would I move to countries with less freedom? The left, on the other hand, is for more government and less freedom. There are numerous such countries they could move to rather than ruin this one.

So you're saying that America is the most free country in the world? Good.

Which means that, in spite of the shrieking about big bad government by the right, there still isn't another country around that can touch us in terms of freedom. And I'd think that the country is considerably better off now with this pesky government interference.

Righties have said the same thing about government getting too involved in for the last 200 years. They said that about child labor, poor food handling, worker's rights and so on.

It was all, "How dare the government interfere in my freedom to pay a 6-year-old to work 14 hours a day for 5 cents an hour and then feed him gruel that he must pay with company scrip!"

 

[Starman]

Well at least gruel is an upgrade from rotten rice.

Maybe the indentured child serfs unionized.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

And, let's review again how what Dems told us would be less than a trillion dollars will actually be more than $2 trillion while taking billions and billions out of Medicare.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/cbo-obamacare-would-cost-over-2-trillion

Meanwhile, we'll be saving a trillion or so by not sending our troops into a certain Mideast adventure.

 

[old_tony]

So, never try to accomplish anything good, because it's possible there could be negative consequences. OK.

When lefties try to limit freedom, the consequences are always negative.

I'll use a saying that righties use whenever I point out how companies screw over workers or banks screw over their customers: People always have the freedom to move to another country.

But since I'm for more freedom, why would I move to countries with less freedom? The left, on the other hand, is for more government and less freedom. There are numerous such countries they could move to rather than ruin this one.

So you're saying that America is the most free country in the world? Good.

Which means that, in spite of the shrieking about big bad government by the right, there still isn't another country around that can touch us in terms of freedom. And I'd think that the country is considerably better off now with this pesky government interference.

Righties have said the same thing about government getting too involved in for the last 200 years. They said that about child labor, poor food handling, worker's rights and so on.

It was all, "How dare the government interfere in my freedom to pay a 6-year-old to work 14 hours a day for 5 cents an hour and then feed him gruel that he must pay with company scrip!"

Nothing more entertainin than watching someone brag about how a country is great because of freedom while they work to make it less free.

 

[RickStain]

Still hate it.

Still am appalled that fellow liberals can be so easily brainwashed into cheering bad, conservative ideas.

Still hate the "well, it's better than nothing" attitude, as if unintended consequences can never make things worse.

Still think that if it's not unconstitutional, we need a better constitution.

It's constitutional. If you don't like it, that's fair. But you don't need a better constitution. You need to elect representatives who'll pass laws you like.

Not at all.

I believe in limited government in the classic, *liberal* sense of the word.

There are areas the government simply cannot cross into. There are other areas where the government is free to insert itself, and should on many occasions.

Forcing people to patronize private companies should fall into the former. If our Constitution doesn't protect us from that, then it's poorly written.

 

[RickStain]

So, never try to accomplish anything good, because it's possible there could be negative consequences. OK.

No, but you should examine the consequences carefully, and not just cheer wildly and thoughtlessly for the intended result.

Good and intended:
Health insurance for everyone

Bad and unintended:
Wildly inflating costs for large swaths of the middle class
Handing the government unprecedented power to force the patronage of private companies on all citizens.
Entrenchment of the private insurance paradigm in America's national health system.

 

[Zeke12]

Still hate it.

Still am appalled that fellow liberals can be so easily brainwashed into cheering bad, conservative ideas.

Still hate the "well, it's better than nothing" attitude, as if unintended consequences can never make things worse.

Still think that if it's not unconstitutional, we need a better constitution.

It's constitutional. If you don't like it, that's fair. But you don't need a better constitution. You need to elect representatives who'll pass laws you like.

Not at all.

I believe in limited government in the classic, *liberal* sense of the word.

There are areas the government simply cannot cross into. There are other areas where the government is free to insert itself, and should on many occasions.

Forcing people to patronize private companies should fall into the former. If our Constitution doesn't protect us from that, then it's poorly written.

Is your car insured?

Do you pay FICA?

 

[RickStain]

Is your car insured?

I don't own a car. And I don't have to.

Under the precedent being set, maybe someday I'll be forced to, but not today.

Notice the incredibly important difference between.

"You must X if you want to operate a motor vehicle on government highways."

vs.

"You must X if you exist."

It's kind of an important distinction.

Do you pay FICA?

Yes. I pay a tax that goes to fund a federal program.

If Obama had passed a tax that paid for a federal health insurance program, I'd be cheering wildly too. But he didn't.

 

[old_tony]

Is your car insured?

I don't own a car. And I don't have to.

Under the precedent being set, maybe someday I'll be forced to, but not today.

Notice the incredibly important difference between.

"You must X if you want to operate a motor vehicle on government highways."

vs.

"You must X if you exist."

It's kind of an important distinction.

This is not just a home run, it's a grand slam.

 

[Zeke12]

And if you choose not to purchase health insurance, you'll pay a tax.

Riddle me the difference.

You must carry car insurance if you want to drive a car.

You must carry health insurance if you want to live in a country that guarantees emergency care to the uninsured.

People want to guarantee coverage to the uninsured.

 

[old_tony]

And if you choose not to purchase health insurance, you'll pay a tax.

Riddle me the difference.

You must carry car insurance if you want to drive a car.

You must carry health insurance if you want to live in a country that guarantees emergency care to the uninsured.

People want to guarantee coverage to the uninsured.

So now the country you were born in was a "choice"? Absolutely ridiculous.