The Regulatory Burdens of Opening a Restaurant in NYC

[YankeeFan]

The City is trying to help small restauranteurs open new restaurants, but you'd have to be a masochist to put up with the burdens involved.

The roadblocks put in front of entrepreneurs are incredible. And this is before you even get into labor law.

Opening a restaurant in New York City can be as frustrating as trying to brown a wet sirloin. Given worries over fire safety, food-borne illness and waste disposal, a new restaurant may have to contend with as many as 11 city agencies, often with conflicting requirements; secure 30 permits, registrations, licenses and certificates; and pass 23 inspections.

And it will still have to go to the state for a liquor license.

Last month, Erica Livingston, a writer and performer, started preparing to open a cafe with the Fourth Arts Block, a nonprofit arts group in the East Village. She and Tamara Greenfield, the group’s executive director, were amazed by the list of permits they needed. “It was frightening,” Ms. Greenfield said.

...

“Restaurants are obviously a big part of the New York City landscape, culture and economy,” said Stephen Goldsmith, the deputy mayor for operations, “and yet we’ve created a regulatory machine that is difficult and often expensive.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/28/nyregion/28permits.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

 

[YGBFKM]

Great lead.

 

[JR]

Lots of due diligence involved in opening a restaurant in any North American city. Toronto's no different

 

[Stoney]

So is the alternative that we just don't worry about fire safety, food borne illnesses and waste disposal? The regulations may suck, but I kinda like knowing the food I've ordered wasn't baked in mouse **** and I won't be walking out with a parasite in my belly.

 

[JR]

So is the alternative that we just don't worry about fire safety, food borne illnesses and waste disposal? The regulations may suck, but I kinda like knowing the food I've ordered wasn't baked in mouse **** and I won't be walking out with a parasite in my belly.

I think you're supposed to take personal responsibility for all these things.

 

[RickStain]

So is the alternative that we just don't worry about fire safety, food borne illnesses and waste disposal? The regulations may suck, but I kinda like knowing the food I've ordered wasn't baked in mouse **** and I won't be walking out with a parasite in my belly.

Yes. Those are the only two options. Baked mouse **** and parasites or this.

 

[YGBFKM]

So is the alternative that we just don't worry about fire safety, food borne illnesses and waste disposal? The regulations may suck, but I kinda like knowing the food I've ordered wasn't baked in mouse **** and I won't be walking out with a parasite in my belly.

A deputy mayor is quoted as saying the process is onerous. Do you not believe him, or is it just easier to respond to the person posting instead of the content of what is posted?

 

[Point of Order]

Yes, state governments, and through them, municipalities, have plenary authority to regulate anything related to the health, safety or general welfare of the citizens, which is pretty much everything. Fortunately, in contrast, our federal government is one of limited, enumerated powers. As a result, most of the regulatory road blocks faced by small business comes from state regulation and not from the feds.

 

[The Big Ragu]

So is the alternative that we just don't worry about fire safety, food borne illnesses and waste disposal? The regulations may suck, but I kinda like knowing the food I've ordered wasn't baked in mouse **** and I won't be walking out with a parasite in my belly.

Even with the DOH doing surprise inspections, there isn't a restaurant -- even the fanciest -- that isn't plagued by vermin and poor handling of food at one time or another. It's impossible to avoid. There are more rats than people in NY and mice congregate wherever there is food -- restaurants, supermarkets, etc. If those are real concerns, your best bet is to avoid restaurants in NY. Restaurants around here get DOHed every day. Shuttered for a few days until they fix whatever problems they got nailed with during a surprise inspection. Even some of the fanciest restaurants have been hit -- more than once. It's the kind of thing I would have figured a well-placed bribe could take care of, but apparently not, judging by some of the DOHed places I have seen. The new thing now is to grade the restaurants based on their inspections and make them put the grades in their windows. So far I have only seen restaurants that got "A's" doing it, but I thought the sign was mandatory no matter what the grade.

The intent is to serve some public good, but the reality is that it is useless.

By way of example, there was a place near where I live that got DOHed. In a big way. A gazillion violations. It was a fairly popular restaurant. The owners tried several times and the DOH kept them closed for not rectifying their problems. The place stayed shuttered for a few weeks. The owners denied that they were DOHed, even though the sign was in their window (they tried to hide it). Then one day, it re-opened. With an all new name, new sign in front and a different menu. If there really are that many permits required to open a restaurant, the owners of the old place sure expedited things, because the new place was the old restaurant -- same owners -- except with a new sign out front and a new menu. I am not sure how they pulled that off.

 

[holy bull]

Ragu, didn't Mario Batali get busted a few years ago?

 

[Armchair_QB]

SLIME IN THE ICE BOX!

 

[slappy4428]

Does it need a coffee machine?

 

[TheSportsPredictor]

Not too onerous, as a new restaurant opens in NYC about every two days:

http://www.nycgo.com/?event=view.article&id=78912

 

[YGBFKM]

Not too onerous, as a new restaurant opens in NYC about every two days:

http://www.nycgo.com/?event=view.article&id=78912

Ya, but most of the food is baked in mouse ****. Although that's preferrable than trans fat.

 

[RickStain]

Not too onerous, as a new restaurant opens in NYC about every two days:

http://www.nycgo.com/?event=view.article&id=78912

Divide that out by the population, that's not that impressive.

 

[JR]

Restaurants have vermin problems if they have poor food storage standards or their kitchen isn't as clean as a hospital operating room--which they should be. Doesn't matter whether it's a AA place or a greasy spoon.

 

[JayFarrar]

A buddy is thinking about opening a restaurant. He does catering and we talked about at lunch today.

The hurdles you have to jump are amazing and I'm not close to NYC. Even in my town, you got a list of about three pages to check off and that's assuming you aren't serving alcohol.

I'd hope it is hard. I don't want to get sick because of some slimeball slinging up rat **** burgers.

 

[RickStain]

Restaurants have vermin problems if they have poor food storage standards or their kitchen isn't as clean as a hospital operating room--which they should be. Doesn't matter whether it's a AA place or a greasy spoon.

Regular vermin problems? Sure, food storage or cleanliness issues are a problem. Though if you think any restaurants are as clean as an operating room, I advise you to never, ever go look into the kitchen of any place you enjoy eating.

But *all* restaurants will attract random, one-off bugs and vermin.

 

[YankeeFan]

Not too onerous, as a new restaurant opens in NYC about every two days:

http://www.nycgo.com/?event=view.article&id=78912

Divide that out by the population, that's not that impressive.

Exactly.

Did you read the article?

The new program helped Mario Batali open 15 weeks earlier than it would have without their help. That's nearly four months. How long a process should it be to open a restaurant? (And we still don't know how long it did take him.)

A buddy is thinking about opening a restaurant. He does catering and we talked about at lunch today.

The hurdles you have to jump are amazing and I'm not close to NYC. Even in my town, you got a list of about three pages to check off and that's assuming you aren't serving alcohol.

I'd hope it is hard. I don't want to get sick because of some slimeball slinging up rat **** burgers.

I think we can all agree that we want our restaurants to be compliant with sanitation & food prep regulations.

But, do you really think the 30 different permits, and 23 inspections by 11 different agencies all have to due with food safety?

Not hardly.

 

[JR]

Restaurants have vermin problems if they have poor food storage standards or their kitchen isn't as clean as a hospital operating room--which they should be. Doesn't matter whether it's a AA place or a greasy spoon.

Regular vermin problems? Sure, food storage or cleanliness issues are a problem. Though if you think any restaurants are as clean as an operating room, I advise you to never, ever go look into the kitchen of any place you enjoy eating.

But *all* restaurants will attract random, one-off bugs and vermin.

I have been in a number of restaurant kitchens and and you can eat off the floor of a lot of them. Professional restaurateurs are absolutely anal about this.

And we're not talking one-off situations which can easily be controlled.