The Knicks and their self-image

[poindexter]

I have never seen or heard a more delusional fan base, or their myth-creators (writers who cover them).

A NY writer named Frank Isola was on espn radio this morning, he was comparing and contrasting the Knicks and Lakers franchises, vis-a-vis signing Carmelo Anthony. He went over various factors, including winning tradition. The Lakers, he said, have "been a bit more successful" over the years.

A bit more successful - unreal.

The Lakers have won 10 NBA championships in the last 40 years. The Knicks have won zero.

The Knicks have created myths out of completely ordinary, boring teams - but if enough New Yorkers keep repeating it, I guess myths can become reality.

 

[YankeeFan]

Are you sure he wasn't being sarcastic?

Isola is a huge critic of Dolan/the Knicks. Dolan won't let anyone talk to him.

 

[YankeeFan]

Frank Isola started on the Knicks beat for the New York Daily News in the fall of 1996, when he was 29 years old. Now, at 46, he has been covering the team longer than anyone else.

Somewhere along the way he got on the team's bad side. These days, the Knicks will not allow Isola or anyone else from the News to conduct one-on-one interviews with players or coaches. The team's publicists regularly warn players, Madison Square Garden employees, and even other reporters to stay away from him, Isola told me.

"The assistant coaches, they're sometimes afraid to even look at you," he said. "It's the most bizarre working atmosphere."

http://deadspin.com/how-frank-isola-became-the-most-hated-man-at-madison-sq-478620919

 

[poindexter]

No sarcasm at all in his tone or words.

 

[YankeeFan]

No sarcasm at all in his tone or words.

That's weird because he makes fun of the Post's Marc Berman for being a Knicks homer.

 

[cjericho]

No sarcasm at all in his tone or words.

That's weird because he makes fun of the Post's Marc Berman for being a Knicks homer.

There is no way he was not being sarcastic. He goes on ESPN radio often and always rips the Knicks.

 

[Mark2010]

The Knicks are to basketball what the Toronto Maple Leafs are to hockey and the Chicago Cubs to baseball.

 

[YankeeFan]

No sarcasm at all in his tone or words.

That's weird because he makes fun of the Post's Marc Berman for being a Knicks homer.

There is no way he was not being sarcastic. He goes on ESPN radio often and always rips the Knicks.

This is what I figured, but I didn't hear what poindexter did.

The guy is Dolan's nemesis.

 

[Batman]

The Knicks are to basketball what the Toronto Maple Leafs are to hockey and the Chicago Cubs to baseball.

Other than the Yankees and the Giants -- and maybe the Devils, if you really want to count them -- it's amazing how mediocre New York sports teams really are.
Five sports teams combining for 200-plus seasons over the last 44 years, and they've won a total of eight championships. If you cut it to the last 30 years to eliminate the Knicks' two early-70s titles and the Islanders' run in the early 80s, and it's a whopping two ('86 Mets and '94 Rangers).
New York is a great sports town, but they're damn lucky to have the Yankees and Giants.

 

[bigpern23]

The Knicks are to basketball what the Toronto Maple Leafs are to hockey and the Chicago Cubs to baseball.

Other than the Yankees and the Giants -- and maybe the Devils, if you really want to count them -- it's amazing how mediocre New York sports teams really are.
Five sports teams combining for 200-plus seasons over the last 44 years, and they've won a total of eight championships. If you cut it to the last 30 years to eliminate the Knicks' two early-70s titles and the Islanders' run in the early 80s, and it's a whopping two ('86 Mets and '94 Rangers).
New York is a great sports town, but they're damn lucky to have the Yankees and Giants.

Wait, so if you cut it down to look at only the years in which New York teams haven't won championships, the city doesn't have many championships? No ****, huh?

 

[ColdCat]

The Knicks are to basketball what the Toronto Maple Leafs are to hockey and the Chicago Cubs to baseball.

Not really, the Maple Leafs have won a it all lot more than the Knicks (13 championships to 2). I'd say the Knicks are a slightly more successful version of the Hawks (The Atlanta Hawks, not the Chicago Blackhawks or Seattle Seahawks, neither of which is as terrible as the Knicks)

 

[Mark2010]

The Knicks are to basketball what the Toronto Maple Leafs are to hockey and the Chicago Cubs to baseball.

Other than the Yankees and the Giants -- and maybe the Devils, if you really want to count them -- it's amazing how mediocre New York sports teams really are.
Five sports teams combining for 200-plus seasons over the last 44 years, and they've won a total of eight championships. If you cut it to the last 30 years to eliminate the Knicks' two early-70s titles and the Islanders' run in the early 80s, and it's a whopping two ('86 Mets and '94 Rangers).
New York is a great sports town, but they're damn lucky to have the Yankees and Giants.

I do think there is something to the media hype. Player gets traded to the Knicks or Rangers or Mets and the media herald him as a star, when the reality is he's an average player. It's not just the local media, either. It seems the national people pick up on the phenomenon.

It's kind of like Texas or Notre Dame football. "If he's playing for (fill in the blank), he must be awesome."

The hype magnifies the disappointment of coming up short. The Royals haven't made the playoffs in a quarter century. But, it's OK, they're from Kansas City and that's life in a smaller market. But somehow, the theory goes, teams from New York should contend every year in every sport.

 

[Mark2010]

The Knicks are to basketball what the Toronto Maple Leafs are to hockey and the Chicago Cubs to baseball.

Not really, the Maple Leafs have won a it all lot more than the Knicks (13 championships to 2). I'd say the Knicks are a slightly more successful version of the Hawks (The Atlanta Hawks, not the Chicago Blackhawks or Seattle Seahawks, neither of which is as terrible as the Knicks)

Yeah, but the Leafs last Stanley Cup came before a lot of us were born, at a time when there were only six teams in the league. So it's something out of the history books.

If you take the last 30-40 years, it's been overinflated ticket prices, a delusional fan base, marginal ownership/management and coaching and media hype.

 

[Batman]

The Knicks are to basketball what the Toronto Maple Leafs are to hockey and the Chicago Cubs to baseball.

Other than the Yankees and the Giants -- and maybe the Devils, if you really want to count them -- it's amazing how mediocre New York sports teams really are.
Five sports teams combining for 200-plus seasons over the last 44 years, and they've won a total of eight championships. If you cut it to the last 30 years to eliminate the Knicks' two early-70s titles and the Islanders' run in the early 80s, and it's a whopping two ('86 Mets and '94 Rangers).
New York is a great sports town, but they're damn lucky to have the Yankees and Giants.

Wait, so if you cut it down to look at only the years in which New York teams haven't won championships, the city doesn't have many championships? No ****, huh?

There's seven major professional franchises in New York, counting the Jets and Giants but not the Nets and Devils. Since 1984, when the last glory runs for the Yankees and Islanders ended, they've won 11 championships. Nine of those belong to the Yankees and Giants. Those two have more than held up their end. The rest of them, not so much.
Just saying, when you take into account the number of New York teams and the number of cumulative seasons, and look at the big picture, it's not too impressive. A heaping stack of mediocrity.

 

[bigpern23]

The Knicks are to basketball what the Toronto Maple Leafs are to hockey and the Chicago Cubs to baseball.

Other than the Yankees and the Giants -- and maybe the Devils, if you really want to count them -- it's amazing how mediocre New York sports teams really are.
Five sports teams combining for 200-plus seasons over the last 44 years, and they've won a total of eight championships. If you cut it to the last 30 years to eliminate the Knicks' two early-70s titles and the Islanders' run in the early 80s, and it's a whopping two ('86 Mets and '94 Rangers).
New York is a great sports town, but they're damn lucky to have the Yankees and Giants.

Wait, so if you cut it down to look at only the years in which New York teams haven't won championships, the city doesn't have many championships? No ****, huh?

There's seven major professional franchises in New York, counting the Jets and Giants but not the Nets and Devils. Since 1984, when the last glory runs for the Yankees and Islanders ended, they've won 11 championships. Nine of those belong to the Yankees and Giants. Those two have more than held up their end. The rest of them, not so much.
Just saying, when you take into account the number of New York teams and the number of cumulative seasons, and look at the big picture, it's not too impressive. A heaping stack of mediocrity.

I was just busting your balls for cherry picking out four championships from the Islanders and two from the Knicks to say New York has only two championships. It's kind of like saying, if you cut out the Yankees two championships in the '70s and four by the late '90s dynasty, they've only won one World Series in the last 50 years!

 

[Batman]

The Knicks are to basketball what the Toronto Maple Leafs are to hockey and the Chicago Cubs to baseball.

Other than the Yankees and the Giants -- and maybe the Devils, if you really want to count them -- it's amazing how mediocre New York sports teams really are.
Five sports teams combining for 200-plus seasons over the last 44 years, and they've won a total of eight championships. If you cut it to the last 30 years to eliminate the Knicks' two early-70s titles and the Islanders' run in the early 80s, and it's a whopping two ('86 Mets and '94 Rangers).
New York is a great sports town, but they're damn lucky to have the Yankees and Giants.

Wait, so if you cut it down to look at only the years in which New York teams haven't won championships, the city doesn't have many championships? No ****, huh?

There's seven major professional franchises in New York, counting the Jets and Giants but not the Nets and Devils. Since 1984, when the last glory runs for the Yankees and Islanders ended, they've won 11 championships. Nine of those belong to the Yankees and Giants. Those two have more than held up their end. The rest of them, not so much.
Just saying, when you take into account the number of New York teams and the number of cumulative seasons, and look at the big picture, it's not too impressive. A heaping stack of mediocrity.

I was just busting your balls for cherry picking out four championships from the Islanders and two from the Knicks to say New York has only two championships. It's kind of like saying, if you cut out the Yankees two championships in the '70s and four by the late '90s dynasty, they've only won one World Series in the last 50 years!

Gotcha. I started to count from 1970, since the thread started about the Knicks and that's when they last won. Then I realized New York team did win a few that first decade but practically none since the Islanders' run ended, so I moved the goalposts a bit. It's a message board. I can do that :D

 

[bigpern23]

The Knicks are to basketball what the Toronto Maple Leafs are to hockey and the Chicago Cubs to baseball.

Other than the Yankees and the Giants -- and maybe the Devils, if you really want to count them -- it's amazing how mediocre New York sports teams really are.
Five sports teams combining for 200-plus seasons over the last 44 years, and they've won a total of eight championships. If you cut it to the last 30 years to eliminate the Knicks' two early-70s titles and the Islanders' run in the early 80s, and it's a whopping two ('86 Mets and '94 Rangers).
New York is a great sports town, but they're damn lucky to have the Yankees and Giants.

Wait, so if you cut it down to look at only the years in which New York teams haven't won championships, the city doesn't have many championships? No ****, huh?

There's seven major professional franchises in New York, counting the Jets and Giants but not the Nets and Devils. Since 1984, when the last glory runs for the Yankees and Islanders ended, they've won 11 championships. Nine of those belong to the Yankees and Giants. Those two have more than held up their end. The rest of them, not so much.
Just saying, when you take into account the number of New York teams and the number of cumulative seasons, and look at the big picture, it's not too impressive. A heaping stack of mediocrity.

I was just busting your balls for cherry picking out four championships from the Islanders and two from the Knicks to say New York has only two championships. It's kind of like saying, if you cut out the Yankees two championships in the '70s and four by the late '90s dynasty, they've only won one World Series in the last 50 years!

Gotcha. I started to count from 1970, since the thread started about the Knicks and that's when they last won. Then I realized New York team did win a few that first decade but practically none since the Islanders' run ended, so I moved the goalposts a bit. It's a message board. I can do that :D

Touche. :D

 

[shockey]

No sarcasm at all in his tone or words.

then it escaped you, whizzed right over your head, a fly-by... no way was frank being anything other than his n.y.-sarcastic best (or worst). trust me, he's chagrined if other listeners missed it as well.

 

[poindexter]

No sarcasm at all in his tone or words.

then it escaped you, whizzed right over your head, a fly-by... no way was frank being anything other than his n.y.-sarcastic best (or worst). trust me, he's chagrined if other listeners missed it as well.

I'm not an idiot, I can detect sarcasm with the best of them. If someone else actually heard it, let me know.

I know how ridiculous it looks reading it.

 

[cjericho]

No sarcasm at all in his tone or words.

then it escaped you, whizzed right over your head, a fly-by... no way was frank being anything other than his n.y.-sarcastic best (or worst). trust me, he's chagrined if other listeners missed it as well.

I'm not an idiot, I can detect sarcasm with the best of them. If someone else actually heard it, let me know.

I know how ridiculous it looks reading it.

didn't hear it, but have heard him before. do a search on his columns. you won't find many praising Dolan and/or the Knicks. Raissman (daily news sports media writer) last week wrote that Dolan gave Mikey Fatcessa an interview (with a knicks or rangers official, forget who) before he talked to ESPN because Isola goes on ESPN and usually pisses on the Knicks and Dolan.