The Death Penalty

[Smallpotatoes]

I oppose it, but I've given up trying to argue about it. It's not going away in my lifetime.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

It isn't. But is also shows that if the killer will kill one of them, he/she will kill anyone...

Yes, but you could argue that about any murder. Killers are killers, I think. If you are crazy enough to kill someone (unless it is self-defense), then you are crazy enough to do ANYTHING.

But we should let them all live, right?

 

[bigpern23]

For cop killers or child killers...

Heads they die, tails they die painfully.

Why is a policeman's or child's life worth more than yours or mine?

Took the question right out of my mouth (though I was more focused on the cop than the kid -- cop can defend him/herself much better than a child).

 

[Mr. Sluggo]

It is a fantastic deterrent. Name one person put to death who proceeded to kill again?

 

[DemoChristian]

It isn't. But is also shows that if the killer will kill one of them, he/she will kill anyone...

Yes, but you could argue that about any murder. Killers are killers, I think. If you are crazy enough to kill someone (unless it is self-defense), then you are crazy enough to do ANYTHING.

But we should let them all live, right?

To me, there's a difference between "let them live" and "kill them like they killed others."
Life in prison is no picnic and I certainly believe they will get theirs in the afterlife.
I just don't want a hypocritical government and the risk of the state killing innocents.

 

[hondo]

If you kill a policeman or a child, you deserve to die.

Maybe so. Not for us to decide, though. Certainly not for the government to decide.

I agree with you ... it's not for us (human beings) to decide who lives and who dies. Now, I'll sit still for abolishing the death penalty if you'll sit still for abolishing abortion except in the cases of the health of the mother and rape/incest.

 

[DemoChristian]

It is a fantastic deterrent. Name one person put to death who proceeded to kill again?

Well hell, let's just make capital punishment the sentence for any crime and then you'll have a utopian society!

 

[JackReacher]

I saw on CourtTV, or whatever it's called these days, that some 18-year-old girl was sentenced to life in prison without parole for killing her father. I found myself feeling sorry for the girl. She made a stupid mistake at 16, and she'll die in prison without experiencing anything resembling a normal life.

What she did was wrong in every way possible, but this kid deserves to be in front of a parole board in 30 or 40 years. By then, she'll be in her late 40s, mid 50s....I can see where she'd no longer be a threat to society at that point.

I was always for the death penalty until I saw this 18-year-old girl hauled off to jail for the rest of her life.

 

[DemoChristian]

I see your point, Ryan, but do you really think she can be a productive member of society after she has spent at least 2/3 of her life in prison? I seriously doubt it.

 

[JackReacher]

I see your point, Ryan, but do you really think she can be a productive member of society after she has spent at least 2/3 of her life in prison? I seriously doubt it.

That's a good question, one I've been debating. Define a productive member of society? If that means living the rest of her life without killing again, I think she could. Rehabilitation is possible.

 

[Smallpotatoes]

It is a fantastic deterrent. Name one person put to death who proceeded to kill again?
That's not deterrence. It's incapacitation.

 

[DemoChristian]

Can she live the rest of her life without committing another felony? I'm not optimistic about it. People do get institutionalized, and she would have very little time in society before being subjected to basically a lifetime in a prison society.

 

[WaylonJennings]

If you kill a policeman or a child, you deserve to die.

Maybe so. Not for us to decide, though. Certainly not for the government to decide.

I agree with you ... it's not for us (human beings) to decide who lives and who dies. Now, I'll sit still for abolishing the death penalty if you'll sit still for abolishing abortion except in the cases of the health of the mother and rape/incest.

Yeah, probably.

 

[JackReacher]

Can she live the rest of her life without committing another felony? I'm not optimistic about it. People do get institutionalize, and she would have very little time in society before being subjected to basically a lifetime in a prison society.

That's what a parole board is for. They can make a determination on that. It's not unheard of for someone to spend 30 or 40 years in prison and come out a different person, one that can live the rest of their lives without another felony.

There are aspects of the death penalty I like, and some I don't.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

I saw on CourtTV, or whatever it's called these days, that some 18-year-old girl was sentenced to life in prison without parole for killing her father. I found myself feeling sorry for the girl. She made a stupid mistake at 16, and she'll die in prison without experiencing anything resembling a normal life.

What she did was wrong in every way possible, but this kid deserves to be in front of a parole board in 30 or 40 years. By then, she'll be in her late 40s, mid 50s....I can see where she'd no longer be a threat to society at that point.

I was always for the death penalty until I saw this 18-year-old girl hauled off to jail for the rest of her life.

You know who I feel sorry for? Her father, you know, the victim.

 

[WaylonJennings]

I saw on CourtTV, or whatever it's called these days, that some 18-year-old girl was sentenced to life in prison without parole for killing her father. I found myself feeling sorry for the girl. She made a stupid mistake at 16, and she'll die in prison without experiencing anything resembling a normal life.

What she did was wrong in every way possible, but this kid deserves to be in front of a parole board in 30 or 40 years. By then, she'll be in her late 40s, mid 50s....I can see where she'd no longer be a threat to society at that point.

I was always for the death penalty until I saw this 18-year-old girl hauled off to jail for the rest of her life.

You know who I feel sorry for? Her father, you know, the victim.

Not mutually exclusive. Biggest logical fallacy propagated in this whole debate. Only a matter of time before it came up here.

 

[Goldeaston]

Ryan, so you would be ok with Susan Atkins, Leslie Van Houten and Patricia Krenwinkel being set free? They were only 21 when they went on their rampage. I'm sure they're all nice people by now. Hell, Atkins is hanging on by a thread anyway. Let's forget that she tasted Sharon Tate's blood after stabbing Tate to death despite pleas of mercy for her and her unborn child.

 

[WaylonJennings]

Ryan, so you would be ok with Susan Atkins, Leslie Van Houten and Patricia Krenwinkel being set free? They were only 21 when they went on their rampage. I'm sure they're all nice people by now. Hell, Atkins is hanging on by a thread anyway. Let's forget that she tasted Sharon Tate's blood after stabbing Tate to death despite pleas of mercy for her and her unborn child.

Not to speak for him, but I don't think he said he was in favor of parole in all cases - but that it should be judged on a case-by-case basis, and that it is POSSIBLE for someone to be rehabilitated, not a sure thing or necessarily even likely.

 

[Goldeaston]

No, but those three were awfully similar, perhaps even better examples. They were followers of a lunatic, caught up in a world of drugs, and snuffed a bunch of people. You could almost argue that they were more accomplices. Then you remember exactly what they did and wonder why they weren't hanged in front of City Hall.

 

[JackReacher]

First, I never said I didn't feel sorry for the dead father. Don't assume, Mizzou.

Second, Waylon is correct. I think it's a case-by-case basis. I think some people deserve to spend the rest of their lives in jail. Just not everyone. A 16-year-old girl has a better chance of being rehabilitated than a 32-year-old man who went on a shooting rampage. The latter is a fully developed human at the time of his crime. The former still has a chance.