The Athletic keeps growing .......

[Fran Curci]

I haven't paid that much attention lately, but after reading the APSE twitter feed today, I see that they're opening in Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Philly, Dallas-Fort Worth .... Anyone know what cities are next?

 

[Alma]

I haven't paid that much attention lately, but after reading the APSE twitter feed today, I see that they're opening in Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Philly, Dallas-Fort Worth .... Anyone know what cities are next?

Probably every pro market eventually and a few college markets, too.

It might very well capture young audiences really well. The Athletic is generally hiring young and will work those young reporters hard, I'm sure. ESPN's ducked out of quite a bit and newspapers spend half of their time asking for permission to do good work.

I'll be curious to see if many younger Athletic writers can write hard things. Real criticism that isn't right out of the liberal millennials' playbook. "It's time to fire Coach X because he called an escort service" is an easy opinion. "It's time to fire Coach X because he can't manage the clock" seems easy, but it usually isn't, because most young writers would just as soon write 2,000-word feel-good features about this pro player's charity or this college player's single mom, or what have you, then **** off some coach.

And I'll be curious to see where The Athletic falls. Fans are fans, and they want sugar when warranted, and blood the rest of the time. Journalists are journalists, and like to win awards and colleague approval through takedowns of the most obvious villains or paeans to the 24-year-old who's changing the world, one home run at a time.

 

[wireguy]

They also announced launching in New York City as of Feb. 12.

 

[Mr. X]

Nnewspapers spend half of their time asking for permission to do good work.

What do you mean by that?

 

[MileHigh]

If they're in Pittsburgh and Cincinnati, I would imagine they would come to Denver at some point but haven't heard any movement on that part.

 

[boundforboston]

I’m not familiar with many of the markets The Athletic is breaking into, so for someone who follows more closely: How good are the people they’re hiring in each market?

 

[JC]

I’m not familiar with many of the markets The Athletic is breaking into, so for someone who follows more closely: How good are the people they’re hiring in each market?

Excellent. Unless you like hot takes.

 

[dirtybird]

Probably every pro market eventually and a few college markets, too.

It might very well capture young audiences really well. The Athletic is generally hiring young and will work those young reporters hard, I'm sure. ESPN's ducked out of quite a bit and newspapers spend half of their time asking for permission to do good work.

I'll be curious to see if many younger Athletic writers can write hard things. Real criticism that isn't right out of the liberal millennials' playbook. "It's time to fire Coach X because he called an escort service" is an easy opinion. "It's time to fire Coach X because he can't manage the clock" seems easy, but it usually isn't, because most young writers would just as soon write 2,000-word feel-good features about this pro player's charity or this college player's single mom, or what have you, then **** off some coach.

And I'll be curious to see where The Athletic falls. Fans are fans, and they want sugar when warranted, and blood the rest of the time. Journalists are journalists, and like to win awards and colleague approval through takedowns of the most obvious villains or paeans to the 24-year-old who's changing the world, one home run at a time.

Firing off a hot take about clock manegment is a hard story to write? I thought we were mad at The young writers because they were to flippant with the bombastic and insulting opinions.

Or are you more saying young writers are not so comfortable with protracted, behind-the-scenes fights and back and forths with coaches as perhaps past generations were?

I mean, Bill Barnwell wrote thousands of words savaging coaches for clock/fourth-down management, even doing it with a degree of nuance in certain ways. But I don’t think you’re saying more folks should follow that path, right?

 

[MNgremlin]

The Minnesota team of writers is some of the best the market has to offer on their respective beats.

 

[Moderator1]

Excellent. Unless you like hot takes.

Yeah, this. Of the people I know they've hired, I have yet to see one and say, "That's an odd hire." They've acquired some high-level talent.

 

[Alma]

I mean, Bill Barnwell wrote thousands of words savaging coaches for clock/fourth-down management, even doing it with a degree of nuance in certain ways. But I don’t think you’re saying more folks should follow that path, right?

Not really. What Barnwell does is easy in its own way, in the sense that he doesn’t have to co-exist with a coach in a certain market. Athletic writers do.

At some point, when you’re a beat columnist or writer or whatever, you have to risk beimg unpopular if you’re going to be any good for any amount of time. Unpopular in the sense that you might have to get a chilly reception for weeks/months for what you wrote.

I guess we’ll see. I don’t feel like I come at this from an overly negative perspective. I didn’t think Grantland would work, and it didn’t. But I’m probably too focused on sustainability.

 

[typefitter]

The Athletic "best on the beat" model makes sense to me. I don't know if it's sustainable, but if you want people to pay for your coverage, it has to be better than what they can get for free. Otherwise you have zero shot. At least The Athletic is giving itself a chance.

 

[JCT89]

The Athletic "best on the beat" model makes sense to me. I don't know if it's sustainable, but if you want people to pay for your coverage, it has to be better than what they can get for free. Otherwise you have zero shot. At least The Athletic is giving itself a chance.

I still think they are expanding too fast. We don't know if the model is sustainable and yet they are expanding rapidly into difficult markets. Can The Athletic corner the Cincinnati market? Probably. Can it do the same in NY and Dallas? I'd be shocked. I'd like to see them slow down a bit and focus on markets they either can win or are in the process of winning -- I have friends who love what they are doing in Philly and Bay Area -- before spending serious resources in a city like New York.

The national sites seem to be hit or miss. I like a lot of what Ken Rosenthal is doing but haven't been as impressed with the CFB/CBK offerings. Haven't seen anything noteworthy on The Ink yet, either, though I'm not sure how much they've even published to this point.

 

[BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo]

Probably every pro market eventually and a few college markets, too.

It might very well capture young audiences really well. The Athletic is generally hiring young and will work those young reporters hard, I'm sure. ESPN's ducked out of quite a bit and newspapers spend half of their time asking for permission to do good work.

I'll be curious to see if many younger Athletic writers can write hard things. Real criticism that isn't right out of the liberal millennials' playbook. "It's time to fire Coach X because he called an escort service" is an easy opinion. "It's time to fire Coach X because he can't manage the clock" seems easy, but it usually isn't, because most young writers would just as soon write 2,000-word feel-good features about this pro player's charity or this college player's single mom, or what have you, then **** off some coach.

And I'll be curious to see where The Athletic falls. Fans are fans, and they want sugar when warranted, and blood the rest of the time. Journalists are journalists, and like to win awards and colleague approval through takedowns of the most obvious villains or paeans to the 24-year-old who's changing the world, one home run at a time.

I'm not seeing "The Athletic is generally hiring young" at all. Here in NY, they hired one kid and a whole bunch of beat guys, including Rick Carpiniello, a longtime Rangers writer who hasn't been working F/T since Gannett screwed him. I've seen some of these beats infuriate head coaches and managers in press conference settings. Marc Carig's piece on Terry Collins' final days as Mets manager basically wrecked his relationship with Collins. Couldn't have been easy to write knowing that was coming. C. Trent Rosecrans hasn't been soft on the Reds in Cincy. Ask that clown Brandon Phillips.

I also suspect fans paying for the content won't be as eager to want blood as the dummies who absorb Barstool Sports for free. You have to be more nuanced and intelligent to pay for content.

I do agree The Athletic looks unsustainable, especially with bored frat tech bros running the place. I think it's going to end badly in a year or so, especially if the market keeps sinking. They'll move on to something else without a second thought about the writers they lured from safer, more established places.

 

[SoloFlyer]

I'm not seeing "The Athletic is generally hiring young" at all. Here in NY, they hired one kid and a whole bunch of beat guys, including Rick Carpiniello, a longtime Rangers writer who hasn't been working F/T since Gannett screwed him. I've seen some of these beats infuriate head coaches and managers in press conference settings. Marc Carig's piece on Terry Collins' final days as Mets manager basically wrecked his relationship with Collins. Couldn't have been easy to write knowing that was coming. C. Trent Rosecrans hasn't been soft on the Reds in Cincy. Ask that clown Brandon Phillips.

I haven't seen much evidence of them hiring young and innovative, either. Two of their best hockey hires in Minnesota and Columbus were well-established, veteran beat writes (Michael Russo and Aaron Portzline).

As you mentioned, the NYC is full of veteran writers. Rick Carpiniello has been in the business for decades. Arthur Staple, Marc Carig and Mike Vorkunov have all been around for a while. Cincy hire C. Trent Rosencrans jumped from the Cincinnati Enquirer - not exactly a small-time gig. The main guys in Pittsburgh - Josh Yohe and new hire Rob Biertempfel - have been on their beats for a long time, too.

I like the idea of The Athletic. I think they've expanded too fast. I think they're hiring a mixed bag of reporters, most of whom are older white males. I hope it doesn't fail, but it just might.

 

[BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo]

If it fails, it won't be b/c the writers aren't good, or the roster isn't varied enough. It'll be for the same reason The National went boobs up after 16 months.

 

[jr/shotglass]

I do think it's an interesting "test case" for paywalls, seeing if a good sports website can convince people to pay for it.

It would go a long way toward legitimizing the business model. Or showing some beancounters that you need to spend money to make money. Or ringing in an era of paying talent exorbitant sums that can't be covered by the income created. Or something.

 

[Elliotte Friedman]

I haven't seen much evidence of them hiring young and innovative, either. Two of their best hockey hires in Minnesota and Columbus were well-established, veteran beat writes (Michael Russo and Aaron Portzline).

As you mentioned, the NYC is full of veteran writers. Rick Carpiniello has been in the business for decades. Arthur Staple, Marc Carig and Mike Vorkunov have all been around for a while. Cincy hire C. Trent Rosencrans jumped from the Cincinnati Enquirer - not exactly a small-time gig. The main guys in Pittsburgh - Josh Yohe and new hire Rob Biertempfel - have been on their beats for a long time, too.

I like the idea of The Athletic. I think they've expanded too fast. I think they're hiring a mixed bag of reporters, most of whom are older white males. I hope it doesn't fail, but it just might.

I have never understood this thinking. If you are new, and want to establish yourself as a successful paid model (or something that can be sold as one -- which many believe is ownership's true intent), you have to hire the best. It shouldn't matter if it is an older white male. Russo is one of the best hockey reporters around. Word is they've done very well with subscriptions out of Minnesota because of him. Portzline, Staple and Yohe are very good, too. From what I know about Carig, he's got a great rep. Why hire someone who doesn't optimize your monetization? It's dumb.

Last week, when I was in Tampa...I was watching Josina Anderson on ESPN. One of our other people mentioned her, and said, "Did you see her fingernails? Wild design." I didn't even notice because her report was good. (But, yes, I looked the next time I saw her.) One thing matters for the Athletic: Can you sell? It doesn't matter if you are white, black or purple; old or young; male or female or other.

Can. You. Sell.

 

[thizzellewashington]

I hope they're successful because I want to see more writers have jobs and they've hired a lot of really good writers, but the guys who run the company aren't good people.

 

[Screwball]

If it fails, it won't be b/c the writers aren't good, or the roster isn't varied enough. It'll be for the same reason The National went boobs up after 16 months.

Because the delivery model was screwed up and no one could find a copy?