the andre dawson hypothetical

[joe_schmoe]

suppose utley continues this streak, and makes it to 57, yet the phillies continue to ride close to the cellar. Considering the stats Utley has already put up...

Do you, if you had a vote, vote for him for MVP?

 

[pallister]

Albert Pujols or someone on the Mets has the NL MVP wrapped up. And no way Utley gets to 57. Way too much pressure.

 

[Still a Bulls fan]

Especially with him being in Philly. No way

 

[Della9250]

Howard's more valuable than Utley, but he'll definitely get votes for being in the top 10.

Right now, I'd say Beltran's the MVP over Pujols with Wright and Soriano nipping at the heels.

 

[KP]

suppose utley continues this streak, and makes it to 57, yet the phillies continue to ride close to the cellar. Considering the stats Utley has already put up...

Do you, if you had a vote, vote for him for MVP?

No way, unless you have a grudge against Pujols and Beltran.
Like the others, there's no way he gets it.

 

[Football_Bat]

I know you're saying "if," but there will be a point (if it gets to Pete Rose / Wee Willie Keeler territory) where Utley will ground out in the first inning and draw 4 intentional passes to end the streak.

Joltin' Joe is safe ... and so is Phat Albert.

 

[Dignan]

I was going to rip you for even suggesting Utley for MVP, but then I got a look at his numbers.

If Utley continues on his current pace, he could finish around .330 with 30 HR, 40 doubles, 110 runs and 100 RBI. Add a 57-game hitting streak and I think we might have something.

That being said, do you know what Rose's 44-game hitting streak got him in 1978? An 11th-place finish in the MVP voting. Rose didn't come close to Utley's power numbers though (.,302, 7 HR, 52 RBI).

 

[Hammer Pants]

No love for Jose Reyes? I get that Wright's probably the better choice, but many Mets think Reyes is their MVP.

 

[Freelance Hack]

Pujols shouldn't get it if St. Louis doesn't win the Central -- and considering they recent play, don't assume that they'll win the division.

Not sure one player really stands out on the Mets.

 

[joe_schmoe]

I'm sorry, reading most of the answer I think the hypothetical part of my question was lost in translation.
1. I know right now Pujols among others are the top MVP candidates.
2. I know Utley probably won't continue the streak, due to the pressure (then again, a lot of people said the same thing of topping Maris' 61 and then the 70 HR season, so you never know)

My question isn't who is the MVP, my question is if you had a vote, and he breaks the record, despited the sucky Phillies...do you consider voting for him?

I was going to rip you for even suggesting Utley for MVP, but then I got a look at his numbers.

If Utley continues on his current pace, he could finish around .330 with 30 HR, 40 doubles, 110 runs and 100 RBI. Add a 57-game hitting streak and I think we might have something.

That being said, do you know what Rose's 44-game hitting streak got him in 1978? An 11th-place finish in the MVP voting. Rose didn't come close to Utley's power numbers though (.,302, 7 HR, 52 RBI).

Thank you for looking at his stats. I've heard several people give the blanket suggestion that Howard is the Phillies MVP, leading the league in HRs and 4th in RBI. Who the heck do they think he's driving in? And imagine how many more runs Utley would have if Howard also weren't second in the league in strikeouts.

Again, this is a hypothetical question. Personally, right now I'd probably vote for Pujols as well, but if Utley gets this streak, he definetly deserves recognition.

 

[Montezuma's Revenge]

Ryan Howard is batting .284, slugging .609 and on pace to hit 55 HRs and drive in 137 -- and you're bitching about his strikeouts.  :

As for MVP, I'd say it's Beltran vs. Pujols at this point.

But, as spnited would remind us all, it's still early.

 

[More hideous than Ben Seaver]

Utley isn't even 60 percent of the way to the record. It's possible we our getting just a tad ahead of ourselves.

 

[Kid Presentable]

Beltran is having an incredible offensive season: 4th in MLB in runs, 6th in HRs, 2nd in RBI (1st in NL), 8th in OPS, and one of two players (Soriano) with 30+ HRs and double digit SBs.

Add in his defensive prowess, and that he plays for the first place Mets, and he's my choice for NL MVP.

 

[Armchair_QB]

Utley isn't even 60 percent of the way to the record.  It's possible we our getting just a tad ahead of ourselves.

True, but he's only 12 games off of the only guy to come close since then.

It's not MVP-worthy but if you get up over 30 games and that's a hell of a streak. Especially in this day and age.

 

[leo1]

this debate always drives me nuts. it's most valuable player, not player of the year. i could never vote for a guy on a last place team or one that didn't contend until close to the end.

others counter my argument and say that an andre dawson - or hypothetically utley who hits in 57 while the phils are second but far out of the wild card - is still valuable because without him his team would've done much worse.

the only way i'd countenance that argument is if no one's individual performance stands out leaguewide and only one person  - the guy on the last place team - had a superb year. then i'd believe that even though his team won only 70 or so games, without him they'd have won about 40 so he's the most valuable.

 

[joe_schmoe]

Hey Leo...thanks, at least you gave an answer on how you would vote.
Apparently no one else here understands the term "hypothetical", which I guess is understandable from the "Toy department"

 

[Mizzougrad96]

If I remember correctly, Dawson had that monster 1987 season in a year where there was no other real, clear cut choice... For some reason I remember that the voting wasn't even close...

If a guy leads the league in HR and RBI in the same season, they had better be a top five MVP candidate, I don't care if they're in first or last place...

 

[Captain_Kirk]

I do think we'll see the day where 56 gets threatened and likely topped. Somebody will get into the 30+ range and catch a few breaks to get past Petey. And I think they'll actually see better pitches the closer they get. A pitcher who pitches around and walks him with a 49 or 51 game streak on the line would be vilified.

And shouldn't it really be the Most Valuable Player as long as your Team was in Championship Contention Award? I've always found that qualification rather odd (an opinion sure to be vilified as well by the board denizens, I'm sure). By strictest definition, the most valuable player would be the person who contributed the most to their team's successes. Or conversely whose team would have suffered the greatest from their not being a part of the team.

I would argue that the poster child for the true definition of MVP would be the year where Steve Carlton won 27 games and his team, the Phillies, end up with around 59 or so total wins.

 

[leo1]

Hey Leo...thanks, at least you gave an answer on how you would vote.
Apparently no one else here understands the term "hypothetical", which I guess is understandable from the "Toy department"

yeah, i get it schmoe, but it's still interesting to have a discussion even if no one is specifically responding to the question of how they'd vote. maybe you should start a poll with one of the choices being 'chase utley if he hits in 57 consecutive games.'

 

[Freelance Hack]

If I remember correctly, Dawson had that monster 1987 season in a year where there was no other real, clear cut choice... For some reason I remember that the voting wasn't even close...

If a guy leads the league in HR and RBI in the same season, they had better be a top five MVP candidate, I don't care if they're in first or last place...

I'd have no qualms about voting for a stats guy in a player of the year category, but MVP is something different and should include intangibles, which obviously are difficult/impossible to quantify.

David Ortiz right now is a near-lock to win the MVP award in the AL, but it's not because he has 37 homers and 100+ RBI. It's beacuse the man is so clutch it's unreal. If he had half his stats, yet still produced the walk-off game-winning hits on a regular basis, he'd still be the leading candidate. Obviously, it helps that he plays in Boston.

All too often, MVP awards are limited to the 3-4-5 hitters, when there are just as many 1-2 hitters (or pitchers! ) that are more valuable to their teams' successes.