Stealing stats?

[BigJim5190]

So long story short, there's a new web site in our area that was started as "the source for state basketball information" and the person/kid who started it has a news and notes section, polls and a scoring leaders for the state along with other information.

As far as newspaper coverage goes, the state is divided up into three coverage areas, so it looks like what he is doing is taking information from various papers and putting it on his site.

Kind of irritating because, at least for our paper, I spend the time getting the stats coordinated to run in the paper and getting the stories and game coverage pulled together. This guy had the nerve to e-mail me and ask if I could send him the stats a day early, which prompted me siccing my editor on him.

Is just taking the stats from our web site and copying and pasting them into the other two zones legal? Do we have any recourse? He was sent a polite "hey, cut it out" e-mail, took all our stuff down for a day, then put it back up on the site.

He included a note of where he gets all his information from as well as a smarmy "Definition of "stealing information" at the bottom of the page now. Of course, that didn't sit well and the legal team is being dispatched.

I was wondering if it's worth it? What's "free" information and what's not? Once I publish something is it out there for someone to crib from or outright steal? I mean articles and columns is one thing, but stats? Is that public information or what?

Just looking to see if I/we are overreacting. I'm just a little irritated because some of my coaches are already getting the polls confused. I mean, once he gets a web ad up, he's making money off my work.

 

[Stitch]

I thought stats can't be copyrighted. Wasn't that the case with fantasy baseball in lawsuits against MLB.

 

[mike311gd]

I'm under the same impression, but I'm far from a legal analyst.

 

[chazp]

There was a college newspaper a few years back that was doing basically the same thing with box scores from the paper I worked at. Our editor said there was no legal recourse, because once info is published in your paper, it becomes public domain. I don't think you can win a suit against the kid.

 

[Barsuk]

BigJim,

I don't think there's much you can do about this, though someone else could come along and prove me wrong. One thing, though: Are you guys putting these stats on your Web site, or just running them in the paper? We run area stats leaders in the paper every week, but we don't put them on the Web. If you did that, this guy would at least have to buy a copy of your paper to rip off the stats.

Just a thought.

 

[mike311gd]

Or at least go to the library, you know ... "trying to save a quarter."

 

[Lollygaggers]

As long as he's crediting your paper as the place he gets the info, it doesn't sound like he's doing anything "wrong." Taking a huge shortcut, yes, but I don't think it's illegal. It's pretty similar to what the Drudge Report's been doing forever, though Drudge at least provides links rather than posting the entire information on his site.

 

[wickedwritah]

Why not ask him to credit you with the information? He doesn't have to do it, since it is in the public domain, but a credit would be nice.

 

[Hank_Scorpio]

Since he asked, send him a report of a guy scoring 60 points in one game a day early. Let him put it on his little web site.

Then you run the correct info in your paper/web site the next day, which makes him look silly.


Other than that, probably not much you can do. Even if he says he'll stop copying your stats, he could still do it and just say he got them from another source.

 

[fishwrapper]

Truth is, he doesn't have to credit anyone.
Statistical information collected in open forum is not protected.

 

[trifectarich]

You can dig quite a hole for yourself when you take and run with info that's wrong.

 

[BigJim5190]

That's what I thought. I figured once they're "out there", it's fair game, but a "credit: Real Newspaper" would have been nice (but not manditory). My editor is pretty fired up about it, so we'll see where it goes. The battle got pushed up the ladder. The SE thinks that because we did all the legwork, it's our news, but I never hear people saying, "Johnny Pointguard averaged 21.2 pointer per game last year for Smalltown High, according to the Podunk Press."

Thanks for all your insight on this.

 

[Central-KY-Kid]

www.kcaaonline.com

I know it's not the greatest site in the world, but could you upload the stats as a gif, bmp, png or jpg instead of txt/html to keep people from copying and pasting? Might take longer to upload, however.

We run weekly stat leaders in hoops, football, track and baseball/softball. Don't put any of them on the web, though. Want the stats? Buy the paper and don't mooch online for free.

If it's about having the same thing in two different places, not sure there's much of an argument. In my neck of the woods, many of the prep boxscores in the Lexington Herald-Leader are the same as the ones in the Louisville Courier-Journal.

 

[Batman]

I have to admit, I've poached a few stats in my day. We're in between two major metros, and some of our outlying schools overlap. Since the state associations tell them to report their stats to the bigger papers, but they won't send us one damn fax no matter how many times we call, occasionally I'll grab the ones we need for our weekly stat list.

Of course, we aren't making our name and most of our money off our stat list, either.

 

[BillyT]

Truth is, he doesn't have to credit anyone.
Statistical information collected in open forum is not protected.

What do you mean by "open forum."

My trouble with this if you have five sports writers at the same game, you may well get five different sets of stats.

Maybe not the scorebook, but other stats.

 

[Nathan Scott Phillips]

While it's true that leagues can't copyright stats, since they happen in public places, I would imagine that the collecting of stats by a private entity is protected. In most cases it would be impossible to prove the source, however, since multiple outlets have the same stuff. But if you were the only site with stats for that game and the only person collecting them, I could see how you could probably have grounds for suit. Likely wouldn't be worth the effort, though.

 

[Your Huckleberry]

This is sort of like stealing quotes. Even though some guy didn't ask the question, he can still use the quote whether it be from a press conference or an impromptu interview. He can even use it without reference to where it was "stolen" from.

As said above, once published, it becomes part of public domain. TV people rip off newspaper stories every day. Where do you think they get their new half the time? They read that morning's paper!!!

Same thing for these new media geniuses on the web. They just rip our stuff off and call it their own. Still, people know that we are the only "trusted" source and that is what newspapers need to focus on selling themselves as. Not just local content but "trusted" too.

 

[crimsonace]

You may not be able to catch him stealing stats, but you'll probably be able to catch him stealing something else (copy).

That's how I caught a rival weakly (um, I mean weekly) that is now out of business plagarizing my stuff. I noticed they had a FULL boxscore (with makes & misses, et al) of a game in which I was the only reporter covering in person. Given I know the local school usually doesn't have individual stats uploaded that quickly, and they NEVER have the opponent's stats, I knew that it had been lifted from me.

I went and read the corresponding story, and some of it was pretty much word-for-word lifted from mine (and found out that they had lifted several other stories word-for-word from both my publication & some others).

I'm glad your higher-ups are steamed about it. My publisher, wanting to not look like the "big, bad" daily trying to run the little community weeklies out of business, refused to go after them on plagarism (after alerting the publishers of two nearby papers, one of which was a major metro, I think someone did, because the plagarism stopped and the paper soon went out of business).

 

[farmerjerome]

I could care less if someone steals my stats.

Our school covers a ton of tiny schools. If someone had a website like this in New York where I could grab a stat or two when I can't get a hold of an opposing coach or newspaper from six hours away, I'm okay with it.

Hell, I'd give the kid what I have.

Some may call it lazy journalism, but given the fact that I get paid less than what a shirt costs at Abercrombie & Fitch for a story, I'm okay with it.

 

[HejiraHenry]

Seems to me the kid has done all three papers a favor by pulling together credible statewide stats ... and the real question ought to be why the three papers didn't cook this idea up themselves and run with it.