Serial

[JackReacher]

Is anyone listening to this podcast? It's generating a ton of interest and popularity. And it's pretty damn fascinating.

It's about a reporter who goes back and investigates the 1999 murder of a high school girl outside Baltimore and whether or not they got it right. They release a new podcast every Thursday (usually between 35-55 minutes). The woman goes into great detail about every aspect of the case, it seems. She plays recorded interviews with as many people as she can talk to, and she also plays recordings from the police interrogations and the trial from back in 1999. Just riveting. It's like True Detective in podcast form.

Anyway, I highly recommend it. The first season is free, but they're trying to generate some cash for the second season, in which they'll tackle a new case. I'll definitely be donating.

 

[Songbird]

Just went over 5 million downloads/streams. They'll make a little cash for the second season.

 

[JackReacher]

Whoa. Yeah, they shouldn't have much trouble making whatever is needed to produce a second season.

 

[Mr. Sunshine]

Was hoping you had spelled "cereal" wrong. Was looking forward to that thread.

 

[sgreenwell]

I'm on episode two right now, and it's really riveting so far. Definitely doing my best to catch up, since I think 8 episodes have come out so far.

 

[Dyno]

I listened to most of episode 1 on my way to work today and can't wait to get back to it.

 

[Amy]

Whoa. Yeah, they shouldn't have much trouble making whatever is needed to produce a second season.

Sarah Koenig makes a pitch for contributions to fund a second season before the start of Episode 9.

 

[JackReacher]

Whoa. Yeah, they shouldn't have much trouble making whatever is needed to produce a second season.

Sarah Koenig makes a pitch for contributions to fund a second season before the start of Episode 9.

Yup. Can't blame her, especially if it has generated more than 5 million downloads. I assume that's a ton. I wouldn't be surprised if she's already raised enough to cover expenses for season 2.

 

[Buck]

Sounds cool. I'm going to check it out.

Was the case unsolved or resulted in no conviction?

 

[Double Down]

Sounds cool. I'm going to check it out.

Was the case unsolved or resulted in no conviction?

No, there was a conviction.

It is, if nothing else, a great example of how a massive amount of reporting can lead to GREAT storytelling. I've read enough hot takes from people sitting in cubicles to last me three lifetimes. This is someone exhaustively pursuing every angle, exploring every nuance, giving you every perspective, and doing it a very fair and entertaining way. There is no way you can listen to it and not have a lot of questions about our entire process of gathering evidence and prosecuting people based on witness testimony and little else (something that happens every day in this country). It's also an interesting look at how many different people can live through something and remember it differently. The narrator, Sarah Koenig, is an absolute pro. Give the first episode a listen. You won't regret it.

www.serialpodcast.org

 

[sgreenwell]

Sounds cool. I'm going to check it out.

Was the case unsolved or resulted in no conviction?

No, there was a conviction.

It is, if nothing else, a great example of how a massive amount of reporting can lead to GREAT storytelling. I've read enough hot takes from people sitting in cubicles to last me three lifetimes. This is someone exhaustively pursuing every angle, exploring every nuance, giving you every perspective, and doing it a very fair and entertaining way. There is no way you can listen to it and not have a lot of questions about our entire process of gathering evidence and prosecuting people based on witness testimony and little else (something that happens every day in this country). It's also an interesting look at how many different people can live through something and remember it differently. The narrator, Sarah Koenig, is an absolute pro. Give the first episode a listen. You won't regret it.

www.serialpodcast.org

I definitely agree with this. I think she is repeating some information that was brought up in books by Malcolm Gladwell and Bill James, in how fickle some convictions or acquittals can be. But the medium - actually hearing all of these interviews with the various participants - really hammers it home in a way a book does not.

 

[Double Down]

I am sympathetic to prosecutors and police officers, who are often put in difficult positions politically, to not only to solves cases but win convictions, whether justice is done or not. There is no way that two Baltimore County homicide detectives could have spent an entire year (or more) investigating nothing but this one homicide. And I think, listening to the podcast, it's reasonable to come the conclusion that Adnan is not entirely innocent here. Guilt and innocence are not probably not black and white terms the way we'd like to believe them, and that's one of the reasons to listen to the podcast. **** is messy. And most convicted criminals in prison who say they're innocent are likely not. So I could see how if you were a cop or a prosecutor listening to this, you'd be pissed because of the larger implications in how it might color how people look at the process. But it seems pretty clear letting Jay convict Adnan with nothing more than his own testimony and cell phone records was ridiculous. Doesn't mean Adnan didn't do it, just means the process was pretty flawed. And that's riveting, seeing that peeled apart.

 

[JackReacher]

I like the way Koenig comes into it with an open mind. She questions herself a lot while narrarting the story and sharing her findings. "Well, he doesn't SOUND like someone who could kill someone." Things like that. But also acknowledging at times that some things make Adnan look very bad. It's like we're all sorting it out together. And how about the guy who finds the body? Good lord.

Ask me what I did two Fridays ago, and I'd have a hard time remembering, especially in the kind of detail Koenig went in search for here. Ask me about a day 15 years ago? Yeesh.

The whole thing is just fascinating. Unfortunately, no podcast next week because of the holiday, so we have to wait two weeks for the next episode.

 

[Buck]

The years I spent covering courts and crime were my favorite as a journalist.

I'm downloading episodes today for a long flight I have end of next week.

 

[Buck]

I downloaded first four episodes, but probably won't listen to them until I'm heading back to California.

I also dig the Cracked podcast and You Made It Werid, which is Pete Holmes' podcast. I know a lot of people don't dig Holmes and he's accused of ripping off Maron with the podcast, but I like him. The format works for him.

I also used to listen to Brian Posehn's Nerd Poker.

I recently changed jobs and have taken on a long commute. I need to get into some more podcasts.

 

[sgreenwell]

I like the way Koenig comes into it with an open mind. She questions herself a lot while narrarting the story and sharing her findings. "Well, he doesn't SOUND like someone who could kill someone." Things like that. But also acknowledging at times that some things make Adnan look very bad. It's like we're all sorting it out together. And how about the guy who finds the body? Good lord.

Ask me what I did two Fridays ago, and I'd have a hard time remembering, especially in the kind of detail Koenig went in search for here. Ask me about a day 15 years ago? Yeesh.

The whole thing is just fascinating. Unfortunately, no podcast next week because of the holiday, so we have to wait two weeks for the next episode.

I have the same thoughts. I worry a bit about how the show will end, and I've also been staunchly avoiding looking up details about the case, because I don't want future episodes to possibly be spoiled for me. I do like that, unless I've missed this, they haven't announced how many episodes there will be, so I haven't ever thought, "Oh just X more." Her approach is so thorough and compelling to me, and it's also good to hear that the show has been wildly popular.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

Ask me what I did two Fridays ago, and I'd have a hard time remembering, especially in the kind of detail Koenig went in search for here. Ask me about a day 15 years ago? Yeesh.

In general I think this is absolutely true.

In the case of Adnan, though, I struggle with this. He says he has no memory at all of what he did on that one day, other than he probably would have been at track practice. The thing is, he knew by 6pm (I think) that his ex-girlfriend had disappeared that afternoon. I suspect at that point I would mentally take note of every single thing I had done that day, and would remember it weeks or months later.

 

[sgreenwell]

Ask me what I did two Fridays ago, and I'd have a hard time remembering, especially in the kind of detail Koenig went in search for here. Ask me about a day 15 years ago? Yeesh.

In general I think this is absolutely true.

In the case of Adnan, though, I struggle with this. He says he has no memory at all of what he did on that one day, other than he probably would have been at track practice. The thing is, he knew by 6pm (I think) that his ex-girlfriend had disappeared that afternoon. I suspect at that point I would mentally take note of every single thing I had done that day, and would remember it weeks or months later.

A couple friends and I have a Facebook chat going on this pod, and we thought the same thing. He also makes no attempt to call her after she's reported missing, and while he explains that away in one of the calls, I didn't find him all that convincing. (I mean, there is a lot about him that isn't all that convincing to me, but that's one of the bigger things.) I had three main theories, which I'll white out in case people are trying to catch up:

1) Adnan is guilty, and he’s not coming clean with the timeline because he realizes him being ambiguous is his only chance to secure a new trial. For example, he might know that he actually strangled Hae Lin in another big box store parking lot at a later time, but he obviously can’t reveal that because he is guilty.

2) Adnan is guilty, and Jay is more guilty than he’s letting on, which accounts for many of his discrepancies. For example, maybe Jay was a much more active participant than simply driving Adnan around and helping him dispose of the body. Maybe he drove Adnan to the scene and waited while the murder was committed. However, if that’s the case, obviously Adnan can’t tell police this, and Jay has no incentive to tell police this either. But it would account for a much different timeline and series of events than they provided.

3) Adnan is innocent, but he came across the body in a way that he feels there is no way he can honestly discuss it. Adnan clearly has a good feeling about how to be perceived as popular; by most accounts, he was a popular kid and didn’t have any problems attracting women, for example. What if he had just happened to find Hae Lin’s body, already dead, at a place they were planning to meet up at? He realizes if he reports it, and even if he comes clean about this now, X years after the fact, it makes him look very guilty. Him revealing this information would be more dubious and makes him look more guilty than his current “defense,” which is mostly “I don’t know” and other ambiguity.

 

[JackReacher]

Ask me what I did two Fridays ago, and I'd have a hard time remembering, especially in the kind of detail Koenig went in search for here. Ask me about a day 15 years ago? Yeesh.

In general I think this is absolutely true.

In the case of Adnan, though, I struggle with this. He says he has no memory at all of what he did on that one day, other than he probably would have been at track practice. The thing is, he knew by 6pm (I think) that his ex-girlfriend had disappeared that afternoon. I suspect at that point I would mentally take note of every single thing I had done that day, and would remember it weeks or months later.

I think he does remember everything from 6 p.m. on. It's just the stuff that happened prior to that because, as he says, it was just a normal day. Nothing out of the ordinary. But yeah, it's like once he found out, he didn't go back and retrace his steps for the entire day, down to the last detail. Seems like a savvy thing to do. But that's very easy to say in retrospect. If I found out at 6 p.m. that my ex was murdered, would it even cross my mind to think about logging the details of my entire day? Or would I be too wrapped up on what was going on at the moment? I don't know.....

 

[Double Down]

He definitely didn't find out she was murdered at 6. He found out she was missing. He found out she was murdered six weeks later. If you buy his claim he thought maybe she'd run to California — which I think she even talked about in her diary — then her going missing might not have seemed so scary and important until weeks later.