Ray Guy's best chance to make the Hall of Fame?

[Della9250]

http://www.profootballhof.com/enshrinement/2013/8/21/ray-guy-claude-humphrey-named-as-2014-finalists/

Apparently it was released without much fanfare on Wednesday that Guy and Claude Humphrey are the Senior Candidates for 2014.

Surprised that the committee went with recent candidates as Senior picks. (Let the Jerry Kramer outrage commence for another year). Humphrey has already been a Senior finalist, in 2009, and is joined by **** Stanfel as the only Senior guys in the last 10, and Marshall Goldberg as the only Senior guys in the last 20 to not make it.

Fun fact about the 2009 finalists -- of the 17, 13 have already been inducted. Humphrey, Reed, Kuechenberg and Tagliabue are still waiting.

Guy is a senior finalist for the first time, so the voters don't have to hold his position against him to get this time. Guy was last on the ballot in 2007, his seventh time. I have to imagine if they put him on the ballot in this capacity, the committee thinks he has enough votes to be inducted.

There were five senior finalists, and I'd love to know who made that final group but didn't make it over Guy.

 

[The Big Ragu]

I think Ray Guy will benefit from time, and a lot of the younger voters buying the legend of Ray Guy, and not necessarily the career of Ray Guy.

Don't get me wrong. Ray Guy's leg was a physical marvel. He boomed kicks. But the reason he has never gotten is that a some voters didn't think he was the best punter ever. Which was a lot to overcome, in addition to the bias against punters.

The legend of Ray Guy is that he was the best punter ever, but more than half the punters today have higher career averages than he did.I know that is comparing eras, which can be unfair, because players all over the field are faster, bigger, stronger, etc. But even for his day, Guy boomed kicks, but he wasn't a guy who reliably hit corners.

With the passage of time, the writers who remember that are going to go away, and the legend of Ray Guy will get him into the Hall of Fame. Dr. Z is a good example. He always made the case that Tommy Davis, not Ray Guy, was the best punter ever.

 

[Steak Snabler]

I've actually heard a lot of old-timers say that Sammy Baugh was the best punter of all-time.

 

[cyclingwriter]

Davis also did double duty as a kicker.

Baugh was a great player, but punting was different when he played. His 51.3 average were a lot of drive punts. Easier to get distance that way as opposed to booming and arcs.

The problem Guy faces is Shane Lechler, who pretty much has rewritten the punting record books in the past decade.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

I think Guy gets in, probably this year...

I know Shane Lechler is awesome, as is Andy Lee, but I don't think either is seen as being better than Guy was.

 

[outofplace]

I think Guy gets in, probably this year...

I know Shane Lechler is awesome, as is Andy Lee, but I don't think either is seen as being better than Guy was.

Then the people doing the looking don't know what they are talking about. Both ARE better than Guy was.

 

[DanOregon]

I believe Guy was the only Raider on all three SB champs. He was the punter on the 75th anniversary team, 7x Pro Bowler, most for a punter. That stuff matters.

 

[The Big Ragu]

I believe Guy was the only Raider on all three SB champs. He was the punter on the 75th anniversary team, 7x Pro Bowler, most for a punter. That stuff matters.

I agree it matters for the Hall of Fame, because there is as much "fame" in getting in as there is being the best player.

Guy was famous because he was the first punter drafted in the first round, played at a time in which football's popularity was taking off and he played for the Raiders who were on TV a lot -- and had a good team. Three Super Bowl teams, as you said. But the honors? I think it was as much the product of his legend as it was him being the best punter.

Their careers overlapped a little. ... Other than the honors, what would be the argument that Ray Guy was significantly better than Rich Camarillo? I'm not just playing devil's advocate. Was Ray Guy really that good?

 

[Baron Scicluna]

I think Guy gets in, probably this year...

I know Shane Lechler is awesome, as is Andy Lee, but I don't think either is seen as being better than Guy was.

Then the people doing the looking don't know what they are talking about. Both ARE better than Guy was.

You have to look at it in the context of the era. There were plenty of punters in Guy's time that didn't even average 40 yards a punt and a punter who would go over that mark was considered pretty special. Guy was consistently over that threshold. Plus you had some teams that didn't even have a full-time punter, and were still using position players (Danny White, Pat McInally).

Comparing Guy to Lechler and Lee is likec omparing Jesse Owens to Usain Bolt. Yeah, Bolt's times are much faster. Doesn't take away from the greatness of Owens in his time.

I've actually heard a lot of old-timers say that Sammy Baugh was the best punter of all-time.

Baugh also did a lot of quick kicks, which was a big strategy back then, and got a lot of yardage on his rolls.

 

[Steak Snabler]

Baron, Guy averaged 40-plus every year of his career, except one. He averaged 39.1 in 1982, when the season was only 9 games long.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

I realize the NFL hall is not a stats-driven thing... but look up Ray Guy's stats and then try to make a case for him being in the hall. It's not possible.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Baron, Guy averaged 40-plus every year of his career, except one. He averaged 39.1 in 1982, when the season was only 9 games long.

OK, a little more than consistently. How about all the time except for once?

 

[Baron Scicluna]

I realize the NFL hall is not a stats-driven thing... but look up Ray Guy's stats and then try to make a case for him being in the hall. It's not possible.

Jesse Owens' fastest 100 meter time: 10.3 seconds.

Usain Bolt's fastest 100 meter time: 9.58 seconds.

Doesn't take away from Owens' greatness in his time.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

I realize the NFL hall is not a stats-driven thing... but look up Ray Guy's stats and then try to make a case for him being in the hall. It's not possible.

I realize the NFL hall is not a stats-driven thing... but look up Ray Guy's stats and then try to make a case for him being in the hall. It's not possible.

Yet, somehow if you polled former coaches, players, media etc... on who the best punter in NFL history is, probably close to 90 percent would say it's Ray Guy.

 

[Tarheel316]

I believe Guy was the only Raider on all three SB champs. He was the punter on the 75th anniversary team, 7x Pro Bowler, most for a punter. That stuff matters.

I think it does, too. He should get in.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

I realize the NFL hall is not a stats-driven thing... but look up Ray Guy's stats and then try to make a case for him being in the hall. It's not possible.

Jesse Owens' fastest 100 meter time: 10.3 seconds.

Usain Bolt's fastest 100 meter time: 9.58 seconds.

Doesn't take away from Owens' greatness in his time.

That assumes Ray Guy was dominant in his time, and only modern punters have better numbers.

That is not the case.

 

[outofplace]

I realize the NFL hall is not a stats-driven thing... but look up Ray Guy's stats and then try to make a case for him being in the hall. It's not possible.

Jesse Owens' fastest 100 meter time: 10.3 seconds.

Usain Bolt's fastest 100 meter time: 9.58 seconds.

Doesn't take away from Owens' greatness in his time.

That assumes Ray Guy was dominant in his time, and only modern punters have better numbers.

That is not the case.

Also a much larger gap in time between Owens and Bolt than there is between Guy and the top punters now.

It's not like other positions in the NFL, which have changed dramatically along with the game. You can make a much better comparison between Guy and Lechler, for example, than you can between Terry Bradshaw and Tom Brady.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

I believe Guy was the only Raider on all three SB champs. He was the punter on the 75th anniversary team, 7x Pro Bowler, most for a punter. That stuff matters.

I think it does, too. He should get in.

I wonder if he's the only eligible person on the 75th Anniversary team who isn't in Canton.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

I realize the NFL hall is not a stats-driven thing... but look up Ray Guy's stats and then try to make a case for him being in the hall. It's not possible.

Jesse Owens' fastest 100 meter time: 10.3 seconds.

Usain Bolt's fastest 100 meter time: 9.58 seconds.

Doesn't take away from Owens' greatness in his time.

That assumes Ray Guy was dominant in his time, and only modern punters have better numbers.

That is not the case.

You're basing it on numbers. There's also the impact on the game. Gale Sayers only played five seasons, plus two games apiece in two others. He led the league in rushing yards twice, although if he hadn't been hurt in '68, he might have gotten a third rushing title.He ran for less than 5,000 yards in total.

Yet, you'd be hard-pressed to say that he wasn't a Hall of Famer.

Leroy Kelly had over 7,200 career rushing yards and won two rushing titles, so you may not be able to say that Sayers was the most dominant back.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

I realize the NFL hall is not a stats-driven thing... but look up Ray Guy's stats and then try to make a case for him being in the hall. It's not possible.

Jesse Owens' fastest 100 meter time: 10.3 seconds.

Usain Bolt's fastest 100 meter time: 9.58 seconds.

Doesn't take away from Owens' greatness in his time.

That assumes Ray Guy was dominant in his time, and only modern punters have better numbers.

That is not the case.

Also a much larger gap in time between Owens and Bolt than there is between Guy and the top punters now.

It's not like other positions in the NFL, which have changed dramatically along with the game. You can make a much better comparison between Guy and Lechler, for example, than you can between Terry Bradshaw and Tom Brady.

Punting has also changed. Punters are much bigger and stronger than they were back in Guy's time and undergo considerable more training. In Guy's time, teams would just line players up, have them punt, and whoever punted the farthest got the job.

Jerrel Wilson is another underrated punter who had great numbers, who was overshadowed on his own team by Jan Stenerud.