Penultimate

[Barsuk]

Next-to-last works for me.

Every now and then, I use a word in a story that I wouldn't think twice about using, and then my wife (who has a master's degree) tells me she's never heard that word and doesn't know what it means. I try not to use that word again, because I'm pretty sure she's smarter than a large percentage of our readers.

 

[zeke12]

My take: Say what you mean. If you try to be "erudite" or too highfalutin', I'm editing it and I'm telling you why I did it.

I'm from the same school. Problem is, sometimes I mean penultimate.

 

[Mayfly]

Next-to-last works for me.

Every now and then, I use a word in a story that I wouldn't think twice about using, and then my wife (who has a master's degree) tells me she's never heard that word and doesn't know what it means. I try not to use that word again, because I'm pretty sure she's smarter than a large percentage of our readers.

Then you are saying in a nutshell that you are smarter than your wife?

 

[da man]

Damn, does this mean I can't use ``redoubtable?'' I love that word.

So I'm guessing nobody here likes "fortnight," either?

I love fortnight and penultimate.

I think we do the reader a disservice if we think they are all drooling imbeciles.

Perhaps, but I also think we do them a disservice if we try to talk over their heads just because we can. Using the words awkwardly does nobody any good, and my guess is a lot of the people who think they can do it right, really can't.

That's a huge problem. Too often writers throw in big words to show how smart they are -- and they use them wrong, proving exactly the opposite. Hell, it happens with everyday words all the time.

When I was with AP I always enjoyed making editing changes in the penultimate graf just so I could write editor notes like, AM-Bus Plunge, 3rd Ld - Writethru, Eds: ADDS detail throughout; DELETES redundant "fiery pit" in fourth graf;CORRECTS spelling of Smith in penultimate graf. Good times.

Cran, that's very cool.

What the hell does it mean?

It means you're obviously not a desk guy.

 

[JR]

You can't complain about the dumbing down of America on one hand and then argue over a perfectly useful, serviceable word.

Using "penultimate" doesn't mean you're trying to flaunt your erudition.

Maybe it's Bush's fault. He's been a shining beacon of idiocy for seven years now.

 

[zeke12]

As always, context is everything.

You don't use it just to use it. That is simply being showy with language. You use it when it's the correct word to use.

The trick is knowing which is which.

 

[Mystery_Meat]

The Weather Channel forecaster -- I forget her name, but she's one of two black women who get on camera, so it's Eboni Dean or the other one -- just used "penultimate" to describe tomorrow's third round of the Tour Championship. But the closed captioner typed it as ultimate. Not sure what if anything that proves. Other than that there's a chance Weather Channel forecasters read SportsJournalists.com. In which case, Stephanie Abrams' phone number pls kthx.

 

[da man]

The Weather Channel forecaster -- I forget her name, but she's one of two black women who get on camera, so it's Eboni Dean or the other one -- just used "penultimate" to describe tomorrow's third round of the Tour Championship. But the closed captioner typed it as ultimate. Not sure what if anything that proves. Other than that there's a chance Weather Channel forecasters read SportsJournalists.com. In which case, Stephanie Abrams' phone number pls kthx.

The closed captions get things wrong all the time, sometimes laughably so. I remember once watching some live event and someone said ``coffee.'' It came out on the closed captions as ``coughy.''

 

[JR]

As always, context is everything.

You don't use it just to use it. That is simply being showy with language. You use it when it's the correct word to use.

The trick is knowing which is which.

I agree entirely about context but there seems to be a school of thought that thinks it's obscure or archaic.

 

[Mystery_Meat]

You can't complain about the dumbing down of America on one hand and then argue over a perfectly useful, serviceable word.

Using "penultimate" doesn't mean you're trying to flaunt your erudition.

Maybe it's Bush's fault. He's been a shining beacon of idiocy for seven years now.

As always, context is everything.

You don't use it just to use it. That is simply being showy with language. You use it when it's the correct word to use.

The trick is knowing which is which.

To resolve, I go to an old favorite of mine, which should tell you all you need to know about how old I think I am:

Good idea: Using penultimate in an editorial, particularly one in a large and respected newspaper. Example -- But the season’s penultimate program brought an ambitious undertaking: David Del Tredici’s “Final Alice,” described by the composer as a “grand concerto for voice and orchestra” and an “opera written in concert form.” Saturday’s presentation was a new chamber version by Alexander Platt, a conductor and the music director of Maverick Concerts. (New York Times review of "Final Alice" by Steve Smith, published Sept. 3)

Bad idea: Using penultimate in a high school football gamer. Example -- The Southside Rockets scored 14 points in the penultimate stanza to vanquish the Meadow Lake Tigers 20-17 Friday night

 

[occasionally]

The late J. Fred Duckett (see thread from earlier this year), in announcing those distance events that were usually the last event of the day at marathon track meets, loved to refer to the "penultimate lap."

 

[dooley_womack1]

Yes, JR, it is a highfalutin word, and not using it does not mean the dumbing-down of America by any means. There is utterly no context where it's better than "next-to-last." None. And a myth: fewer words is always better. No, it's not.

 

[dooley_womack1]

BTW, I just caught up with some prodigal_son posts. I have a pretty decent idea who it's the new form of. I'm not gonna say, but just sayin'

 

[zeke12]

Yes, JR, it is a highfalutin word, and not using it does not mean the dumbing-down of America by any means. There is utterly no context where it's better than "next-to-last." None. And a myth: fewer words is always better. No, it's not.

Gotta disagree, dools.

There are times when penultimate is correct. As someone else mentioned, it likely adds a whiff of gravitas one doesn't need in a HS football gamer, but there are times when it would absolutely be correct.

 

[Piotr Rasputin]

I've used it.

When telling a story and telling it well (as opposed to attempting to give gravitas to a prep gamer), that word works a hell of a lot better than "second-to-last."

I actually like the word quite a bit, but it should be used judiciously.

There are a lot of words (malaise, penultimate, distasteful, glory, achieve, etc.) that I like to use in stories when appropriate. Why treat our readers like third graders when third graders aren't reading newspapers anyway? Despite the inanity that occurs on the other end of the phone when we answer it, I try to credit our readers with some intelligence.

After all, they're already showing some smarts by reading my stuff in the first place.

;D ;D 8) 8)

 

[micropolitan guy]

My take: Say what you mean. If you try to be "erudite" or too highfalutin', I'm editing it and I'm telling you why I did it.

If I use it, I mean "penultimate." As in, next-to-last, but not as wordy.

Not in every story, of course. But occasionally.

 

[Johnny Dangerously]

Penultimate mightier than swordultimate.

 

[dooley_womack1]

The Penultimatum.

 

[Bubbler]

Anytime you use a so-called big word in a story it has to flow.

Adding it for the sake of adding it is silly, such as MM's "bad idea" listed earlier. I used to do that **** with headlines when I was starting out, I'm the only person who managed to get "indefatigable" in a package headline. Clearly, I was showing off and that's stupid.

Also if you're going all Grantland Rice and using nothing but purple prose, you're an asshole.

But if a so-called big word does flow, it's a silly thing for a copy editor to complain about. I actually used penultimate in a story I wrote tonight, because in the context I used it, it worked better than "second-last", which has no flow to it at all.

The rest of my story was straight-up profanity.

But in all seriousness, I err on the side of not insulting the intelligence of our readers. Many will get a certain word, others who don't will get it by the inference of the sentence, as for the others? In most cases, they're not going to get hung up on one word to the point where they stop reading a story. It's a minor thing to worry about unless, as mentioned, it gets out of hand.

 

[musicman]

no patience to read an entire thread on this, but dooley needs to get over it. depends on who he/you/me/and the other guy/gal are writing for.