Pentagon Papers II

[zagoshe]

Why are we fighting anyone to begin with?

I thought the purpose of our national defense was to defend our nation.

Remind me again which war of the past 55 years since World War II we've engaged in to defend our nation?

Are we currently being attacked?

 

[Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L)]

 

[NoOneLikesUs]

Interesting piece written by an Iranian native just a few months ago.

http://www.globalpolitician.com/26340-islamism

See this is where it's so difficult in this country. A lot of people of the "liberal" persuasion want to believe that Islam is some sort of peaceful religion, but don't really understand that the entire history of that terrible practice is rooted in sick and twisted violence. The right just hates it because it's full of brown-skinned people who aren't Christians.

Neither takes the stance that the entire Islamic world, if left to fester and cultivate more backwards thought, will threaten the very essence of the great secular society of the Western world.

 

[Stoney]

Interesting piece written by an Iranian native just a few months ago.

http://www.globalpolitician.com/26340-islamism

See this is where it's so difficult in this country. A lot of people of the "liberal" persuasion want to believe that Islam is some sort of peaceful religion, but don't really understand that the entire history of that terrible practice is rooted in sick and twisted violence.

The "entire" history? Really? How is that tale of Islam conquering Persia any worse than crimes committed in the name of Christianity centuries ago? There's no more basis to hold acts committed by muslims 1400 years ago against today's Islam than there is to hold the Crusades, Inquisition and slave trade against today's Chrisianity.

I thought that article was a lot of silly melodramatic hyperbole. We are in legitimate peril of suffering future attacks like 9/11 or worse, but we're in no danger of suffering Persia's fate by being swept over and conquered by Islamofascists.

 

[printdust]

Let's see. What happened 1400 years ago with Christianity is really going to settle the twisted issues described about Islam, is it? That's a weak argument for ignoring it and at best, it's idealistic, thinking if we just love the Taliban and Al Queda...

 

[WriteThinking]

It truly is the ultimate cluster****. We can't afford to stay in, there doesn't seem to be any way to actually "win" ****ing thing, but walking away could have utterly catostrophic future consequences. So we just stay stuck in the middle. **** if I know what to do. **** if anyone does.

When I really think about things, I agree with Stoney, and have to concur with this. Heck, everyone probably has to concur with this sentiment, and that is probably much of the problem with this situation. Nobody knows what to do.

Then, I read through all six pages of this thread. And, I get up and pass my coffee table with the latest edition of Time magazine on it -- the one with the headline, "What Happens If We Leave Afghanistan" and a portrait of earless, noseless Aisha on the cover -- after she had run away from abusive in-laws, only to be dragged away so that she could be punished/maimed by, yes, her husband, who did it all with impunity. Indeed, his actions were sanctioned by the Taliban.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007238,00.html

I read through that story, and I just don't care. I agree with this:

If you're a glass half-full kind of guy, letting the Taliban retake Afghanistan could be a positive.

We could withdraw, let the Taliban retake Afghanistan, let it fill up with terrorists then start reducing our nuclear stockpile one missile at a time by bombing the country forward into the Stone Age.

What kind of freakin' people do what was done to Aisha? It's sheer, untenable, nonsensical barbarism that, ideally, could/should just be bombed away.

Then, my sense of reason, ethics and humanity asserts itself again, and the cycle begins all over again. And this war goes on, too...

 

[Baron Scicluna]

I've often thought what we should do is take some of our guns, and just give them over to Afghan women. None to the men.

Might equalize things a lot more and bring the men into the 21st Century much faster.

 

[Stoney]

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007238,00.html

That cover is sickening. A beautiful 18 year old girl with her ears and nose cut off. Christ. If she lived over here she'd be going to prom, parties and getting ready for college right now. I do hope that, in exchange for giving them this unforgettable cover shot, Time is making an effort to try to get her out of the country, because they just made her twice the target with this publiciity.

And the idea discussed there about the Afghan Govt trying work out a reconciliation agreement to coexist with the Taliban is naive nonsense. The Taliban would abide by that agreement until the day U.S. troops withdraw and not one day longer. They'd then start slaughtering everybody who was helpful, supportive and sympathetic to us. We brought this to them, asked for their support, now we're just gonna walk away and leave em to the wolves because it didn't go as we planned? What an absolute nightmare situation.

 

[YankeeFan]

I've often thought what we should do is take some of our guns, and just give them over to Afghan women. None to the men.

Might equalize things a lot more and bring the men into the 21st Century much faster.

Sounds like a plan.

The issues that Islam have with women are at the heart of many of the problems.

(And you can say that Islam does isn't the problem, that it's cultural, but either way, until woman have equal rights -- or something close to it -- the Islamic world will not modernize and will not moderate.)

 

[WriteThinking]

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007238,00.html

That cover is sickening. A beautiful 18 year old girl with her ears and nose cut off. Christ. If she lived over here she'd be going to prom, parties and getting ready for college right now. I do hope that, in exchange for giving them this unforgettable cover shot, Time is making an effort to try to get her out of the country, because they just made her twice the target with this publiciity.

And the idea discussed there about the Afghan Govt trying work out a reconciliation agreement to coexist with the Taliban is naive nonsense. The Taliban would abide by that agreement until the day U.S. troops withdraw and not one day longer. They'd then start slaughtering everybody who was helpful, supportive and sympathetic to us. We brought this to them, asked for their support, now we're just gonna walk away and leave em to the wolves because it didn't go as we planned? What an absolute nightmare situation.

Having read the article in its entirety in a hard copy of the magazine, I highly recommend it. Buy a copy of the magazine if you don't subscribe.

Like the cover photo, the story is harrowing but important and affecting.

And I agree with YankeeFan. I hate to say this because I try not to judge, and certainly, not to condemn, anyone's beliefs out of hand, especially when I don't know everything about them (although I'm not totally ignorant, either).

BUT, I think much of the problem is with Islam itself.

 

[Boom_70]

4:74 “Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of Allah, whether he is slain or gets victory - soon shall we give him a reward of great value.”

2:222 They ask you about menstruation. Say: "It is an indisposition. Keep aloof from women during their menstrual periods and do not touch them until they are clean again. Then have intercourse with them as Allah enjoined you. Allah loves those that turn to Him in repentance and strive to keep themselves clean." Women are your fields: go, then, into your fields as you please. Do good works and fear Allah. Bear in mind that you shall meet Him. Give good news to the believers.

2:228 Women shall with Justice have rights similar to those exercised against them, although men have a status above women. Allah is mighty and wise.

4:34 Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the others, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because Allah has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey, take no further action against them. Allah is high, supreme.