MVP discussions

[casty33]

Since the two MVP awards are the only ones left, let's discuss. I have a feeling -- and I really can't say why -- Jeter will NOT win the AL award. I say Morneau wins, though I would expect a strong showing for Jermaine Dye as well. As I said, I don't know why I feel this but I just don't think Jeter has the votes.

As for the NL, it's really a tossup. I think Ryan Howard will win but I couldn't argue with Pujols. And they are the only two who should get first-place votes.

I'll be interested in other opinions.

 

[Freelance Hack]

Pujols gets it in the NL because a) his team won its division and b) I think there's still some lingering voter remorse over past snubs.

Jeter had a Barry Larkin circa 1995 season, and no one else really stood out (not even Big Papi). In my mind, that makes him a consensus pick.

 

[Columbo]

If you want the player who was more responsible for his team making the postseason than anyone else, it's Pujols.

If you want the player who dominated in the final three weeks, as opposed to the other guy, who was just "good" while his team spit the bit, it's Oz picking Ramirez over Zimmerman Pujols.

If you want the better defensive player, it's Pujols.

If you read that Columbo is backing Pujols, it's Howard.

 

[outofplace]

I say give it to Morneau over Jeter.

One thing I keep hearing about Jeter as a candidate is how he held the Yankees together when the other stars on the team were either hurt (Sheffield, Matsui) or struggling (Alex Rodriguez).

But you can counter that it was Morneau that got the Twins offense going. When he started hitting in May, that's when they started winning. And they kept on winning even after they lost Liriano.

And please save me the Captain Jeter garbage. A good team captain puts aside his personal feelnigs stands up for a teammate who is getting shredded by the media and the fans. He'll stand up for a cheat like Giambi, but not Rodriguez. Jeter had a great year as a player, but a lousy one as a captain.

 

[Columbo]

And please save me the Captain Jeter garbage. A good team captain puts aside his personal feelnigs stands up for a teammate who is getting shredded by the media and the fans. He'll stand up for a cheat like Giambi, but not Rodriguez. Jeter had a great year as a player, but a lousy one as a captain.

And that is why he shouldn't win it.

 

[Angola!]

As a Yankees fan I hope Jeter doesn't win it because then ARod will just feel worse about his life despite the fact he is a better player than Jeter.
I really think Jermaine Dye should win it and I think he has a better chance than Morneau.

 

[outofplace]

I wouldn't argue with Dye, although the way the White Sox crapped out at the end of the season really hurts his cause.

I gave Morneau the advantage over Dye because his team not only made the playoffs, but they did it by coming from far behind the White Sox to get in and eliminate Chicago.

 

[leo1]

And please save me the Captain Jeter garbage. A good team captain puts aside his personal feelnigs stands up for a teammate who is getting shredded by the media and the fans. He'll stand up for a cheat like Giambi, but not Rodriguez. Jeter had a great year as a player, but a lousy one as a captain.

And that is why he shouldn't win it.

ok, i'm a twins fan and even objectively i'd probably pick morneau over jeter. but this logic doesn't make much sense. he shouldn't win MVP because he didn't stick up for his teammate? since when is one of the criteria for MVP sticking up with your teammate. i think it's performance on the field, not off field stuff - although i can see where a player who had legal trouble might lose some votes.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

You really can't argue with Howard or Pujols...

I would vote for Morneau or Dye ahead of Jeter, but I suspect Jeter will win...

 

[Freelance Hack]

If given a choice to start a team, I pick ARod first, Pujols second. Jeter is down, down, down on the list.

That said, Jeter helped keep the team together and provided excellent offensive numbers. Usually it's silly to ask if the Yankees win without anybody, but it's a good question this year.

 

[Oz]

I like Pujols in the NL. Not sure who in the AL, though ... I'm biased toward Dye because he is a former Royal, but I'm not sure whether he deserves it more than Morneau.

I just know I do NOT want to see Jeter win the award. He doesn't deserve it.

 

[BYH]

I hope Casty is right. I'd have a hard time putting Jeter fifth on my list, unless it was the list of all-time overrated players.

And as others have noted, it's going to be funny when his leadership is pegged as one of the reasons he's deserving of the award when he's done anything but lead that team.

 

[Oz]

And as others have noted, it's going to be funny when his leadership is pegged as one of the reasons he's deserving of the award when he's done anything but lead that team.

Exactly. He could have gotten the fans off A-Rod's back at any time since he moved to New York, and he's shown inclination to do so. Given how much A-Rod means to that team's success, and given the "leadership" role Jeter had, he failed to do his job.

 

[Claws for Concern]

Pujols for NL MVP.

Any votes for Frank Thomas as AL MVP or is it the David Ortiz-DH situation there?

 

[Oz]

Umm ... care to elaborate?

What "success" have the Yanks had since A-Rod got there? Greatest collapse in baseball history? Floundering pitifully in the first round vs. the Angels and Tigers the following two years? What does A-Rod mean to that team's success?

Perhaps I overspoke, but a leader is supposed to be there for his teammate, to have his back. And I wonder whether this A-Rod drama could have been avoided had Jeter simply ignored whatever beef he has with A-Rod and backed him up, like he were anyone else.

You can't tell me that a happy, confident A-Rod would not have produced better than the one we've seen the last two years.

 

[Double Down]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain with a straight face how Jeter "kept that team together."

By wearing a suit every day?

By giving bland quotes to the media?

By humping 20-something models?

By freezing out A-Rod?

I not usually in the business of defending Alex Rodriguez, but the idea that all Jeter's hits are done in persuit of the team's success and all A-Rod's hits are done in persuit of personal statistics, is a sham. One of the largest in sports. I think A-Rod sucks balls in the clutch, but I don't doubt his sincerity. He doesn't want to win any less that Jeter, he just isn't any good at it. If Derek Jeter were the type to give clubhouse speeches and invite guys out for drinks (like, say, Messeir), and if he were willing to stand by a teammate he hates simply because he knew it was in the best interests of the team (Thurman Munson), than yes, I would award him extra points for "leadership" in the MVP discussion. Because he does not, and often seems more concerned about his legacy than Bill Clinton ever was, I'll judge him by his stats alone.

I wonder sometimes, if it were up to the players instead of Steinbrenner, if Mo Rivera would be the captain instead of Jeter. Maybe. Maybe not.

 

[BYH]

If Jeter was such a great leader, you'd think they would have won once in the last five seasons, ever since O'Neill, Martinez and Brosius--the real heart and soul of those dynasty teams--left.

And again: Anyone who says Jeter is all about the team has never seen him hack away at 3-0 with his hitting streak on the line against a rookie who can't find the strike zone.

 

[jagtrader]

It's Jeter and Howard. One has the reputation and fame and the other has the Triple Crown stats.

Pujols is still the best player in baseball -- by a mile.

 

[outofplace]

And please save me the Captain Jeter garbage. A good team captain puts aside his personal feelnigs stands up for a teammate who is getting shredded by the media and the fans. He'll stand up for a cheat like Giambi, but not Rodriguez. Jeter had a great year as a player, but a lousy one as a captain.

And that is why he shouldn't win it.

ok, i'm a twins fan and even objectively i'd probably pick morneau over jeter. but this logic doesn't make much sense. he shouldn't win MVP because he didn't stick up for his teammate? since when is one of the criteria for MVP sticking up with your teammate. i think it's performance on the field, not off field stuff - although i can see where a player who had legal trouble might lose some votes.

Some others got my point. I've heard leadership as an argument for Jeter to win the award and I don't think that he did a good job in that department this year.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

Leadership is performance, period. When several important Yankees went down for most of the season, Jeter had the best season of his already high-quality career. That's leadership. He's no shrink. Counseling a neurotic star teammate ain't in the job description.
You can't have it both ways. You can't make fun of the idea that Jeter has "intangible" value and then rip him for failing to display said intangibles.
Yankee-hatred is an old and honorable tradition in American sports. It should not carry over into evaluating the merits of individual Yankees. Jeter is a Hall of Fame player. This was the best season of his career in a year when his team won the most games in the American League. By every standard set for the MVP award, he qualified and then some. He would have won my vote, although if Dye, my second choice, or Morneau won I wouldn't be surprised or offended.