Michael Irvin's induction speech

[Songbird]

Can I have the lion?

Sorry, I got that. You can have the giraffe. Longer neck means a few extra bites.

 

[Guy_Incognito]

I've managed to avoid you for quite some time now, but Yawn, you have a real point here, and you guarantee that nobody will hear it by following it up with all of this garbage.

 

[forever_town]

His personal beliefs are just that: personal. The news media has no obligation to run it just because he says it.

That said, Irvin's speech was outstanding. Very moving and classy.

Unlike the rest of his life and his career.

 

[jgmacg]

Yawn, how would you feel if he'd said this instead?

"The Koran speaks of a healing place," Irvin told the hushed stadium, where even the other Hall of Famers stopped their needling to listen. "It's called the threshing floor. It's where you take your greatest fear and pray for help from your great Allah.

"When I am on that threshing floor, I pray, I say, 'Allah, I have my struggles, and I made some bad decisions, but whatever you do, whatever you do, don't let me mess this up' I say, 'Please, help me raise them, for some young lady, so they can be a better husband than I. Help me raise them for their kids, so they can be a better father than I.' And I tell you guys to always do the right thing, so you can be a better role model than daddy."

or

"The Pentateuch speaks of a healing place," Irvin told the hushed stadium, where even the other Hall of Famers stopped their needling to listen. "It's called the threshing floor. It's where you take your greatest fear and pray for help from your great Yahweh.

"When I am on that threshing floor, I pray, I say, 'Yahweh, I have my struggles, and I made some bad decisions, but whatever you do, whatever you do, don't let me mess this up' I say, 'Please, help me raise them, for some young lady, so they can be a better husband than I. Help me raise them for their kids, so they can be a better father than I.' And I tell you guys to always do the right thing, so you can be a better role model than daddy."

or

"The Bhagavad Gita speaks of a healing place," Irvin told the hushed stadium, where even the other Hall of Famers stopped their needling to listen. "It's called the threshing floor. It's where you take your greatest fear and pray for help from your great Vishnu.

"When I am on that threshing floor, I pray, I say, 'Vishnu, I have my struggles, and I made some bad decisions, but whatever you do, whatever you do, don't let me mess this up' I say, 'Please, help me raise them, for some young lady, so they can be a better husband than I. Help me raise them for their kids, so they can be a better father than I.' And I tell you guys to always do the right thing, so you can be a better role model than daddy."

 

[forever_town]

Thanks again Buck-o, for proving my point.

You people won't run it because of your bias. Pure and simple.

No, I wouldn't run it if my paper were national because organized religion is a crock of ****.

 

[Alma]

Well, this has become a fun pissing match...

In a sense Yawn is right...not just in the Irvin story, but in most national stories, the news media seems to project a "general morality" defined by "good people" and "bad people" and "everyday heroes" and the "evil that lurks in your neighborhood." This general morality involves letting people live their lives (**** who you want, eat what you want, drink what you want, make as much money as you want, do what you want how you want when you want) until it either hurts someone else (however that's measured) or said person ****s up in an Official Way In Which You Are Not Allowed to **** Up.

At that point, the media, the great purveyor and defender of this general, completely objective and unobtrusive morality, cast their lots and make their judgments. The saddest portion of the paper is invariably the cops section, where reporters suck the collective cocks of police departments and print just about anything that falls out of PR Cop's mouth. Irvin made an excellent point years ago when he asked the media to report his innocence on a given charge with "equal intensity" as it had the original allegations. The media did not.

In other words, the media is both European and Puritanical. It plays at freedom but revels in punishment. As a collective, God, any God, is simply not enough for the media. Because it wants to God. It wants to be the threshing floor. The media is constantly after the "truth." It seeks to write in its own daily Bibles. It is its own idol.

So Yawn, I dunno. Why are you really surprised?

 

[Alma]

Yawn, how would you feel if he'd said this instead?

"The Koran speaks of a healing place," Irvin told the hushed stadium, where even the other Hall of Famers stopped their needling to listen. "It's called the threshing floor. It's where you take your greatest fear and pray for help from your great Allah.

"When I am on that threshing floor, I pray, I say, 'Allah, I have my struggles, and I made some bad decisions, but whatever you do, whatever you do, don't let me mess this up' I say, 'Please, help me raise them, for some young lady, so they can be a better husband than I. Help me raise them for their kids, so they can be a better father than I.' And I tell you guys to always do the right thing, so you can be a better role model than daddy."

or

"The Pentateuch speaks of a healing place," Irvin told the hushed stadium, where even the other Hall of Famers stopped their needling to listen. "It's called the threshing floor. It's where you take your greatest fear and pray for help from your great Yahweh.

"When I am on that threshing floor, I pray, I say, 'Yahweh, I have my struggles, and I made some bad decisions, but whatever you do, whatever you do, don't let me mess this up' I say, 'Please, help me raise them, for some young lady, so they can be a better husband than I. Help me raise them for their kids, so they can be a better father than I.' And I tell you guys to always do the right thing, so you can be a better role model than daddy."

or

"The Bhagavad Gita speaks of a healing place," Irvin told the hushed stadium, where even the other Hall of Famers stopped their needling to listen. "It's called the threshing floor. It's where you take your greatest fear and pray for help from your great Vishnu.

"When I am on that threshing floor, I pray, I say, 'Vishnu, I have my struggles, and I made some bad decisions, but whatever you do, whatever you do, don't let me mess this up' I say, 'Please, help me raise them, for some young lady, so they can be a better husband than I. Help me raise them for their kids, so they can be a better father than I.' And I tell you guys to always do the right thing, so you can be a better role model than daddy."

Neat question, and entirely beside the point.

The real question is...why is any of the speech valid if some of it isn't? If you can't run the meat of the speech for reason x, why is any of it usuable? Because it's generally moral?

 

[Write-brained]

INSENSITIVITY ALERT (Don't read if you don't want to be offended.)

Yeah, listening to Michael Irvin talk about God isn't on my list of things to do today, but I'm all ears if I hear he told some of his blow and ho stories. Then again, did he mention anything about talking to God while lying on the carpet at the Vet while being rained with boos? I'd like to hear that.

 

[armageddon]

America won't elect a female president because too much of Middle America is scared by a woman in power and instead wants her to stay in the kitchen and birth them babies and cook that food and do what the man tells her to do.

Sound familiar, yawn?

Excuse me, but I happen to live in Middle America. And no one I know, either a co-worker, friend or casual acquaintance, thinks that way.

I wouldn't vote or Hilary, but not cuz she is a woman.

I'd chose Obama, though I really wish Colin Powell would one day run.

 

[jgmacg]

Yawn, how would you feel if he'd said this instead?

"The Koran speaks of a healing place," Irvin told the hushed stadium, where even the other Hall of Famers stopped their needling to listen. "It's called the threshing floor. It's where you take your greatest fear and pray for help from your great Allah.

"When I am on that threshing floor, I pray, I say, 'Allah, I have my struggles, and I made some bad decisions, but whatever you do, whatever you do, don't let me mess this up' I say, 'Please, help me raise them, for some young lady, so they can be a better husband than I. Help me raise them for their kids, so they can be a better father than I.' And I tell you guys to always do the right thing, so you can be a better role model than daddy."

or

"The Pentateuch speaks of a healing place," Irvin told the hushed stadium, where even the other Hall of Famers stopped their needling to listen. "It's called the threshing floor. It's where you take your greatest fear and pray for help from your great Yahweh.

"When I am on that threshing floor, I pray, I say, 'Yahweh, I have my struggles, and I made some bad decisions, but whatever you do, whatever you do, don't let me mess this up' I say, 'Please, help me raise them, for some young lady, so they can be a better husband than I. Help me raise them for their kids, so they can be a better father than I.' And I tell you guys to always do the right thing, so you can be a better role model than daddy."

or

"The Bhagavad Gita speaks of a healing place," Irvin told the hushed stadium, where even the other Hall of Famers stopped their needling to listen. "It's called the threshing floor. It's where you take your greatest fear and pray for help from your great Vishnu.

"When I am on that threshing floor, I pray, I say, 'Vishnu, I have my struggles, and I made some bad decisions, but whatever you do, whatever you do, don't let me mess this up' I say, 'Please, help me raise them, for some young lady, so they can be a better husband than I. Help me raise them for their kids, so they can be a better father than I.' And I tell you guys to always do the right thing, so you can be a better role model than daddy."

Neat question, and entirely beside the point.

The real question is...why is any of the speech valid if some of it isn't? If you can't run the meat of the speech for reason x, why is any of it usuable? Because it's generally moral?

This question was Yawn-specific, for exactly the reason you describe. If you're going to fight for the media to include any acknowledgment of the Almighty, you have to fight for every acknowledgment of the Almighty.

To your point, Alma, that the media derogates the deity on one hand while arrogating to itself the deity's powers on the other, I'm not sure I disagree.

I'd ask this, though -

- How are we to know when an athlete or a politician or any public figure is simply using the appearance of faith hypocritically, as a fig leaf to conceal bad behavior?

- And, more broadly, is morality only possible in the presence of God? Or is a morality made by man just as moral?

 

[Alma]

INSENSITIVITY ALERT (Don't read if you don't want to be offended.)

Yeah, listening to Michael Irvin talk about God isn't on my list of things to do today, but I'm all ears if I hear he told some of his blow and ho stories. Then again, did he mention anything about talking to God while lying on the carpet at the Vet while being rained with boos? I'd like to hear that.

I'm not offended, but I think what you're saying is that Irvin isn't allowed to be a Christian. He's led too ****ty a life for that.

 

[Yawn]

Yawn, how would you feel if he'd said this instead?

"The Koran speaks of a healing place," Irvin told the hushed stadium, where even the other Hall of Famers stopped their needling to listen. "It's called the threshing floor. It's where you take your greatest fear and pray for help from your great Allah.

"When I am on that threshing floor, I pray, I say, 'Allah, I have my struggles, and I made some bad decisions, but whatever you do, whatever you do, don't let me mess this up' I say, 'Please, help me raise them, for some young lady, so they can be a better husband than I. Help me raise them for their kids, so they can be a better father than I.' And I tell you guys to always do the right thing, so you can be a better role model than daddy."

or

"The Pentateuch speaks of a healing place," Irvin told the hushed stadium, where even the other Hall of Famers stopped their needling to listen. "It's called the threshing floor. It's where you take your greatest fear and pray for help from your great Yahweh.

"When I am on that threshing floor, I pray, I say, 'Yahweh, I have my struggles, and I made some bad decisions, but whatever you do, whatever you do, don't let me mess this up' I say, 'Please, help me raise them, for some young lady, so they can be a better husband than I. Help me raise them for their kids, so they can be a better father than I.' And I tell you guys to always do the right thing, so you can be a better role model than daddy."

or

"The Bhagavad Gita speaks of a healing place," Irvin told the hushed stadium, where even the other Hall of Famers stopped their needling to listen. "It's called the threshing floor. It's where you take your greatest fear and pray for help from your great Vishnu.

"When I am on that threshing floor, I pray, I say, 'Vishnu, I have my struggles, and I made some bad decisions, but whatever you do, whatever you do, don't let me mess this up' I say, 'Please, help me raise them, for some young lady, so they can be a better husband than I. Help me raise them for their kids, so they can be a better father than I.' And I tell you guys to always do the right thing, so you can be a better role model than daddy."

Since it's not Christianity, the liberal media would have aired the comment in full, followed it up with a panel of Islam/Buddhism/etc. in the NFL, and had no rebuttal from Pat Robertson's kind.

 

[Yawn]

Yawn, how would you feel if he'd said this instead?

"The Koran speaks of a healing place," Irvin told the hushed stadium, where even the other Hall of Famers stopped their needling to listen. "It's called the threshing floor. It's where you take your greatest fear and pray for help from your great Allah.

"When I am on that threshing floor, I pray, I say, 'Allah, I have my struggles, and I made some bad decisions, but whatever you do, whatever you do, don't let me mess this up' I say, 'Please, help me raise them, for some young lady, so they can be a better husband than I. Help me raise them for their kids, so they can be a better father than I.' And I tell you guys to always do the right thing, so you can be a better role model than daddy."

or

"The Pentateuch speaks of a healing place," Irvin told the hushed stadium, where even the other Hall of Famers stopped their needling to listen. "It's called the threshing floor. It's where you take your greatest fear and pray for help from your great Yahweh.

"When I am on that threshing floor, I pray, I say, 'Yahweh, I have my struggles, and I made some bad decisions, but whatever you do, whatever you do, don't let me mess this up' I say, 'Please, help me raise them, for some young lady, so they can be a better husband than I. Help me raise them for their kids, so they can be a better father than I.' And I tell you guys to always do the right thing, so you can be a better role model than daddy."

or

"The Bhagavad Gita speaks of a healing place," Irvin told the hushed stadium, where even the other Hall of Famers stopped their needling to listen. "It's called the threshing floor. It's where you take your greatest fear and pray for help from your great Vishnu.

"When I am on that threshing floor, I pray, I say, 'Vishnu, I have my struggles, and I made some bad decisions, but whatever you do, whatever you do, don't let me mess this up' I say, 'Please, help me raise them, for some young lady, so they can be a better husband than I. Help me raise them for their kids, so they can be a better father than I.' And I tell you guys to always do the right thing, so you can be a better role model than daddy."

Neat question, and entirely beside the point.

The real question is...why is any of the speech valid if some of it isn't? If you can't run the meat of the speech for reason x, why is any of it usuable? Because it's generally moral?

This question was Yawn-specific, for exactly the reason you describe. If you're going to fight for the media to include any acknowledgment of the Almighty, you have to fight for every acknowledgment of the Almighty.

To your point, Alma, that the media derogates the deity on one hand while arrogating to itself the deity's powers on the other, I'm not sure I disagree.

I'd ask this, though -

- How are we to know when an athlete or a politician or any public figure is simply using the appearance of faith hypocritically, as a fig leaf to conceal bad behavior?

- And, more broadly, is morality only possible in the presence of God? Or is a morality made by man just as moral?

You can speak to his faults, but quote him in context. That's not Christianity at issue, that's first amendment rights of free speech.

 

[buckweaver]

INSENSITIVITY ALERT (Don't read if you don't want to be offended.)

Yeah, listening to Michael Irvin talk about God isn't on my list of things to do today, but I'm all ears if I hear he told some of his blow and ho stories. Then again, did he mention anything about talking to God while lying on the carpet at the Vet while being rained with boos? I'd like to hear that.

I'm not offended, but I think what you're saying is that Irvin isn't allowed to be a Christian. He's led too ****ty a life for that.

Actually, I think what he's saying is ... why should we believe him now when we know what he was like before? Just because he says the right things doesn't mean we should take him at his word.

 

[Write-brained]

INSENSITIVITY ALERT (Don't read if you don't want to be offended.)

Yeah, listening to Michael Irvin talk about God isn't on my list of things to do today, but I'm all ears if I hear he told some of his blow and ho stories. Then again, did he mention anything about talking to God while lying on the carpet at the Vet while being rained with boos? I'd like to hear that.

I'm not offended, but I think what you're saying is that Irvin isn't allowed to be a Christian. He's led too ****ty a life for that.

Of course, he's allowed to be religious. Of course, he's allowed to talk about it all he wants. I just don't believe any of it in his case. I think it's a reputation fix.

 

[Yawn]

If you want to editorialize, fine. Otherwise, report what happened.

Big, big difference Buck-o.

 

[Yawn]

INSENSITIVITY ALERT (Don't read if you don't want to be offended.)

Yeah, listening to Michael Irvin talk about God isn't on my list of things to do today, but I'm all ears if I hear he told some of his blow and ho stories. Then again, did he mention anything about talking to God while lying on the carpet at the Vet while being rained with boos? I'd like to hear that.

I'm not offended, but I think what you're saying is that Irvin isn't allowed to be a Christian. He's led too ****ty a life for that.

Actually, I think what he's saying is ... why should we believe him now when we know what he was like before? Just because he says the right things doesn't mean we should take him at his word.

Maybe you don't know a lot of drug users and the struggle to overcome the habit. It's not a battle one always stays on top of in the battle to conquer.

 

[Write-brained]

INSENSITIVITY ALERT (Don't read if you don't want to be offended.)

Yeah, listening to Michael Irvin talk about God isn't on my list of things to do today, but I'm all ears if I hear he told some of his blow and ho stories. Then again, did he mention anything about talking to God while lying on the carpet at the Vet while being rained with boos? I'd like to hear that.

I'm not offended, but I think what you're saying is that Irvin isn't allowed to be a Christian. He's led too ****ty a life for that.

Actually, I think what he's saying is ... why should we believe him now when we know what he was like before? Just because he says the right things doesn't mean we should take him at his word.

Maybe you don't know a lot of drug users and the struggle to overcome the habit. It's not a battle one always stays on top of in the battle to conquer.

Yawn, it wasn't just drugs in Irvin's case. He had a family at home when he was found in the apartment/hotel with the blow and the hos, screaming 'Do you know who I am.' IMO, he was always a grade A ass without much concern for anyone but himself.

 

[jgmacg]

Since it's not Christianity, the liberal media would have aired the comment in full, followed it up with a panel of Islam/Buddhism/etc. in the NFL, and had no rebuttal from Pat Robertson's kind.

Asked and answered here, I'm afraid.

 

[Alma]

Yawn, how would you feel if he'd said this instead?

"The Koran speaks of a healing place," Irvin told the hushed stadium, where even the other Hall of Famers stopped their needling to listen. "It's called the threshing floor. It's where you take your greatest fear and pray for help from your great Allah.

"When I am on that threshing floor, I pray, I say, 'Allah, I have my struggles, and I made some bad decisions, but whatever you do, whatever you do, don't let me mess this up' I say, 'Please, help me raise them, for some young lady, so they can be a better husband than I. Help me raise them for their kids, so they can be a better father than I.' And I tell you guys to always do the right thing, so you can be a better role model than daddy."

or

"The Pentateuch speaks of a healing place," Irvin told the hushed stadium, where even the other Hall of Famers stopped their needling to listen. "It's called the threshing floor. It's where you take your greatest fear and pray for help from your great Yahweh.

"When I am on that threshing floor, I pray, I say, 'Yahweh, I have my struggles, and I made some bad decisions, but whatever you do, whatever you do, don't let me mess this up' I say, 'Please, help me raise them, for some young lady, so they can be a better husband than I. Help me raise them for their kids, so they can be a better father than I.' And I tell you guys to always do the right thing, so you can be a better role model than daddy."

or

"The Bhagavad Gita speaks of a healing place," Irvin told the hushed stadium, where even the other Hall of Famers stopped their needling to listen. "It's called the threshing floor. It's where you take your greatest fear and pray for help from your great Vishnu.

"When I am on that threshing floor, I pray, I say, 'Vishnu, I have my struggles, and I made some bad decisions, but whatever you do, whatever you do, don't let me mess this up' I say, 'Please, help me raise them, for some young lady, so they can be a better husband than I. Help me raise them for their kids, so they can be a better father than I.' And I tell you guys to always do the right thing, so you can be a better role model than daddy."

Neat question, and entirely beside the point.

The real question is...why is any of the speech valid if some of it isn't? If you can't run the meat of the speech for reason x, why is any of it usuable? Because it's generally moral?

This question was Yawn-specific, for exactly the reason you describe. If you're going to fight for the media to include any acknowledgment of the Almighty, you have to fight for every acknowledgment of the Almighty.

To your point, Alma, that the media derogates the deity on one hand while arrogating to itself the deity's powers on the other, I'm not sure I disagree.

I'd ask this, though -

- How are we to know when an athlete or a politician or any public figure is simply using the appearance of faith hypocritically, as a fig leaf to conceal bad behavior?

- And, more broadly, is morality only possible in the presence of God? Or is a morality made by man just as moral?

To answer question No. 1: How do we know anything? Merely asking that question lends credence to my argument about the media assuming the God position. <i> If only we had a truth box or something! Then we'd know for sure </i>

Really, I don't think the media much cares whether a person is lying. In some cases, they kinda hope they do. They quote liars constantly; they're called football coaches. If the media views religion so objectively, why would the hypocrisy of those who claim it be any different?


To No. 2: I think C.S. Lewis answered that question better I can in Mere Christianity. I believe that any good thing must come from God, and if a non-believer lives what is called a moral life, it is by the common grace of their conscience given to them by God.