Martina takes another stand

[Scout]

LGBT group severs links with Navratilova over transgender comments Navratilova transgender comments spark row

Unless taking hormones reduces muscle mass, I’m with her on this.

If Anthony Davis starts to identify as a woman and starts the transformation process, I don’t think the WNBA would be a fair place for him to play basketball.

 

[Azrael]

Billie Jean stood up for Caster Semenya yesterday, too.

 

[exmediahack]

LGBT group severs links with Navratilova over transgender comments Navratilova transgender comments spark row

Unless taking hormones reduces muscle mass, I’m with her on this.

If Anthony Davis starts to identify as a woman and starts the transformation process, I don’t think the WNBA would be a fair place for him to play basketball.

He still wouldn’t get his team out of the first round.

 

[outofplace]

This topic really is turning into a third rail in sports. All I really know is that I don't know what the appropriate rules should be.

The simple answer is that a person who is physically male should not be competing in women's athletics, but none of this is simple. To me, nothing should come before fairness in sports. Nothing is more important than a level playing field. But how do we level the playing field in these cases?

 

[outofplace]

He still wouldn’t get his team out of the first round.

I fully appreciate the joke you are going for there, but actually, she would and that is kind of the issue.

 

[The Big Ragu]

What a mess they have made of things.

Seems to me that what Martina is saying is totally consistent with Caster Semenya being left alone and allowed to compete.

They are trying to force Semenya to artificially change her natural make up in order to be allowed to compete. It's absurd, and backward beyond anything, in my opinion.

The fact that Martina is getting shouted down with "transphobic" labels, without anyone really doing a good job of addressing what she actually said, is telling to me. She's not hateful of transgender people. She isn't unaccepting of them. What she wrote in that Journal op ed was essentially that for the purposes of athletic competition, it matters if you were born with a penis. Allowing that person to compete as a woman, no matter what they do to artificially change their testosterone levels, makes a mess of gender-specific athletic competition. I think where she went wrong was by using the word "cheating." It created a visceral reaction.

I agree with her. Fine if someone wants to disagree and thinks we should totally change the parameters of those athletic competitions. But it does **** me off that she can't say something so straightforward without being labeled a bigot. The nastiness of the identity politics behind this is that she's a lesbian being skewered by LGBT organizations.

 

[DanielSimpsonDay]

I fully appreciate the joke you are going for there, but actually, she would and that is kind of the issue.

But what if that team was going against an opponent with Tracy McGrady?

 

[outofplace]

On that part, I agree with you. The use of the word cheating definitely set people off. I absolutely get why that word would offend someone who is transgender given the challenges they go through. If someone is really making that transition, they want to be treated as the gender they identify. It feels like a fair request to them, but sports makes that a very tricky issue.

That said, it is absolutely wrong and unfair for those people to label what Narvratilova said as transphobic.

 

[Scout]

LGBT yearly olympics

It might sound barbaric, but what you were born with is where you compete. If you want to switch genders, create a LGBT athletic organization.

 

[DanielSimpsonDay]

In its statement, Athlete Ally said Navratilova's comments were "transphobic, based on a false understanding of science and data, and perpetuate dangerous myths that lead to the ongoing targeting of trans people through discriminatory laws, hateful stereotypes and disproportionate violence".

I would like some deeper insight into the science and data Martina doesn't understand and the myths she's perpetuating.

 

[BTExpress]

"transphobic, based on a false understanding of science and data, and perpetuate dangerous myths that lead to the ongoing targeting of trans people through discriminatory laws, hateful stereotypes and disproportionate violence".

I think they have that on their save-get (old Atex term) every time they disagree with something someone says.

 

[Oggiedoggie]

Unfair advantages are rampant. For example, the NBA is filled with genetic mutants who grow to freakish heights. There’s limited chance for potential players who happen to be in the “normal” range of stature to compete. Oh, there are always some exceptions of players on the shorter side of tall who succeed. But, to be fair, something should be done to counteract the over abundance of growth hormones and other genetic factors while future players are in their growth stages. My mom was always cautioning that coffee, smoking or unclean thoughts too early would “stunt my growth.” Perhaps those practices should be employed to remedy the excessively tall.

 

[DanOregon]

I find the idea that a person would become trans for competitive advantage, knowing the higher murder rates, the discrimination etc. pretty laughable. Trans people probably have bigger things to worry about, and this argument seems mainly designed to further the notion that trans people are most interested in peeking into the bathrooms of the opposite gender, cheating at sports and getting access to things that they normally wouldn't be.

 

[outofplace]

Unfair advantages are rampant. For example, the NBA is filled with genetic mutants who grow to freakish heights. There’s limited chance for potential players who happen to be in the “normal” range of stature to compete. Oh, there are always some exceptions of players on the shorter side of tall who succeed. But, to be fair, something should be done to counteract the over abundance of growth hormones and other genetic factors while future players are in their growth stages. My mom was always cautioning that coffee, smoking or unclean thoughts too early would “stunt my growth.” Perhaps those practices should be employed to remedy the excessively tall.

Well, somebody read the talking points, but that is not a fair analogy. I keep trying to come up with better ones, but I can't think of one. People who are born male have physical advantages over people who are born female. They do not meet the physical requirements to play women's sports.

 

[DanielSimpsonDay]

It is reasonable to expect society to accommodate one's identity for the sake of that person's happiness.

It is not similarly reasonable to expect science to accommodate one's biology for the same.

 

[Oggiedoggie]

Well, somebody read the talking points, but that is not a fair analogy. I keep trying to come up with better ones, but I can't think of one. People who are born male have physical advantages over people who are born female. They do not meet the physical requirements to play women's sports.

It might be a bit more applicable in Caster Semenya’s situation.

 

[heyabbott]

Well, somebody read the talking points, but that is not a fair analogy. I keep trying to come up with better ones, but I can't think of one. People who are born male have physical advantages over people who are born female. They do not meet the physical requirements to play women's sports.

If Grayson Allen finally came to the realization that she’s a woman living in a man’s body, she’d be the best player in the WNBA, but not even the worst ***** in the NBA

 

[outofplace]

I find the idea that a person would become trans for competitive advantage, knowing the higher murder rates, the discrimination etc. pretty laughable. Trans people probably have bigger things to worry about, and this argument seems mainly designed to further the notion that trans people are most interested in peeking into the bathrooms of the opposite gender, cheating at sports and getting access to things that they normally wouldn't be.

Sorry, but no. That simply isn't true. It certainly isn't a fair representation of Navratilova's comments. It would be laughable for a person to become trans simply for competitive advantage. People do some incredibly stupid things for athletic success and I hesitate to put limits on how far some individuals will go, but if that has happened at all, it has to be incredibly rare. That is why Navratilova's use of the word cheating was a mistake, because it implies that was the sole reason for the transition.

But what about people born male who transition to female because that is what they feel is right for them, then want to compete as a woman? Is that fair?

 

[DanOregon]

I guess I just don't know where the word "fair" enters into the conversation. Is it fair that some athletes are taller than others, stronger than others - maybe the answer is to do away with separate gender categories for sports.

 

[Guy_Incognito]

I guess I just don't know where the word "fair" enters into the conversation. Is it fair that some athletes are taller than others, stronger than others - maybe the answer is to do away with separate gender categories for sports.

OK, I'm triggered. Still waiting for someone to explain to me why we still have separate actor and actress categories in Oscars, Emmys etc.