LZ Granderson with a better take on "Keeping it real" mentality

[Double Down]

Instead of blaming rap music or the Black KKK, Granderson, who works for Page 2 and ESPN the Magazine, talks about his own foolish ways as a young man (he held his first gun at 13), and how one of his ex-teachers assumed he'd end up dead or in jail. Though he makes some of the same points Mr. Quintuple-XL did, he does it rationally and without the "I keep my pimp hand strong" silliness.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=granderson/071203

One of those rare stories where I think it could have, and maybe should have, been longer.

 

[PhilaYank36]

I think LZ did a very good job at including himself in the story, but not making himself the story.

 

[Bruhman]

Great piece.

But this line - The thing is, systematic racism and slavery has nothing to do with purchasing illegal weapons, Bad Newz Kennels or making it rain. - is a bit naive in my humble opinon.

Nothing to do with it?

It doesn't have everything to do with it.

But it definitely has something to do with it.

 

[hondo]

Great column. And these words from that column should be posted inside the jail cells of Michael Vick, the thugs who killed Sean Taylor and any other person who thinks keeping it real is somehow important:

"I was doing it to gain respect from people who really didn't have my best interest in mind."

Some day, kids might get this message. If they don't want to, they might consider this: Keeping it real has a stunning failure rate. They might want to consider the alternative just to play the percentages. And the alternative is to distance themselves from people who want to keep them in the same gutter in which they reside.

 

[bigpern23]

Great piece.

But this line - The thing is, systematic racism and slavery has nothing to do with purchasing illegal weapons, Bad Newz Kennels or making it rain. - is a bit naive in my humble opinon.

Nothing to do with it?

It doesn't have everything to do with it.

But it definitely has something to do with it.

Before this thread takes a turn south (which I'm sure it will), I'm curious what you think systemic racism has to do with those things. Can you expand on that?

I'm not necessarily agreeing LZ's statement, but I'm interested to get some perspective contradicting it.

 

[Flying Headbutt]

Great piece.

But this line - The thing is, systematic racism and slavery has nothing to do with purchasing illegal weapons, Bad Newz Kennels or making it rain. - is a bit naive in my humble opinon.

Nothing to do with it?

It doesn't have everything to do with it.

But it definitely has something to do with it.

Before this thread takes a turn south (which I'm sure it will), I'm curious what you think systemic racism has to do with those things. Can you expand on that?

I'm not necessarily agreeing LZ's statement, but I'm interested to get some perspective contradicting it.

I was curious, too. My guess is that he is referring to the origin (and now consequences) of the socio-economic disparity that still exitsts, and is the root source of most crime. If not, then I too am curious.

 

[Double Down]

Bruhman and hondo,

I think your last two posts both make points that, when viewed together, provide the best soluiton. Bruhman, I absolutely agree that you can't just kiss off 400 years of slavery and all that resulted from it. It is naive. And if pressed, I bet that Granderson would concede that's more a wish than a real belief. It does have something to do with it. In this editorial written by Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates, he points out that studies show the difference between middle class African Americans and those mirred in a cycle of poverty is most often one thing: Property. Had Andrew Johnson not vetoed the "40 acres and a mule" policy, black America might look very different today. And there is no denying it. No amount of foot stomping and stories about how "my Irish grandparents had to scrape for every penny" can deny that fact. You can't tie bricks to the feet of an entire race of people for four centuries, untie them slowly over the course of 50-odd years, then ask them to run as fast as everyone else, and pretend like the past has nothing to do with the present.

But I will say that Granderson's point about how it eventually comes down to personal responsibility is true too. Some kids cannot overcome their environment by themselves. I have been in some inner city schools in this country that would break your heart. And the theives that run them should pratically be put on trial at the Hague for what they've done to those kids in the name of preserving their own self interests. But the kids who do have opportunities and do have enough structure to have a chance at something better have to make that last giant leap by themselves. What's frustrating for me is that a lot of the conservatives (and liberals) who throw around phrases like "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" could do a lot more good with genuine Christian kindness than they could morality lectures. Yes, it's frustrating. Yes, it's difficult. Yes, you will be let down occasionally. But if you save one kid's life from the streets, he might save two more down the road on his own. There is a high school coach in my area, this big, fat, white, devout Christian, and he teaches and coaches at the most elite private school in the city. Costs a college tuition just to send your kid there. But every year, he scours the city for kids who come from crappy situations and gets them scholarships to go to school and play for his team. And he ends up sending some of them to Ivy League schools. I've seen him steer kids to Duke, Notre Dame and Penn when Florida State wanted that same player because he knew it would mean more to that kid in the long run. Wish there were more like him.

 

[Pancamo]

400 years of slavery?

 

[Double Down]

Ok, 400 years of oppression. Does that work better Pac?

 

[Double Down]

Either we're burned out on this topic, or Granderson's rational thinking can't quite generate the heat that Whitlock's angry missives can and do.

Perhaps both.

 

[Bruhman]

Either we're burned out on this topic, or Granderson's rational thinking can't quite generate the heat that Whitlock's angry missives can and do.

Perhaps both.

It's both.

I know I get tired of going round and round on this. But it's baffling that more reasonable, logical folks can't understand that subjecting an entire race to 400 years of systematic, systemic oppression is going to leave some pyschological scarring.

Or "conditioning" if you prefer

 

[hondo]

Either we're burned out on this topic, or Granderson's rational thinking can't quite generate the heat that Whitlock's angry missives can and do.

Perhaps both.

It's both.

I know I get tired of going round and round on this. But it's baffling that more reasonable, logical folks can't understand that subjecting an entire race to 400 years of systematic, systemic oppression is going to leave some pyschological scarring.

Or "conditioning" if you prefer

Deeply sorry here about the 400 years. Wish there was something I could do about it but when the situation was at its worst (pre-Civil War), one side of my family was in Holland and the other side in Croatia. Doesn't excuse the conduct of Michael Vick or Pacman Jones one iota.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

Either we're burned out on this topic, or Granderson's rational thinking can't quite generate the heat that Whitlock's angry missives can and do.

Perhaps both.

It's both.

I know I get tired of going round and round on this. But it's baffling that more reasonable, logical folks can't understand that subjecting an entire race to 400 years of systematic, systemic oppression is going to leave some pyschological scarring.

Or "conditioning" if you prefer

Deeply sorry here about the 400 years. Wish there was something I could do about it but when the situation was at its worst (pre-Civil War), one side of my family was in Holland and the other side in Croatia. Doesn't excuse the conduct of Michael Vick or Pacman Jones one iota.

hondo --
Jesus Christ.
Slavery -- and the subsequent triumph of white supremacy -- had everything to do with the development of the country to which your forbears came.

 

[bigpern23]

Either we're burned out on this topic, or Granderson's rational thinking can't quite generate the heat that Whitlock's angry missives can and do.

Perhaps both.

It's both.

I know I get tired of going round and round on this. But it's baffling that more reasonable, logical folks can't understand that subjecting an entire race to 400 years of systematic, systemic oppression is going to leave some pyschological scarring.

Or "conditioning" if you prefer

Ignoring Hondo's, "Well, I didn't do anything so you should be fine" post, I do understand the psychological scarring that has occurred and that it affects the way blacks perceive themselves and others in this country.

What I don't understand is what that scarring has to do with buying guns, etc. It seems to me that it only tangentially has anything to do with it. By that, I mean, I think poverty has more to do with that type of criminal behavior than race. There are plenty of poor white folks doing the same things in the inner cities. Now, tangentially, there are a disproportionate number of blacks and other minorities below the poverty line, so in that sense, systemic racism does contribute to problems like illegal weapons.

I don't see how systemic racism contributes to dogfighting, though. I could be wrong, but I see that more as a geographic thing. I don't think there's much of a culture of it in my neck of the woods.

 

[hondo]

Either we're burned out on this topic, or Granderson's rational thinking can't quite generate the heat that Whitlock's angry missives can and do.

Perhaps both.

It's both.

I know I get tired of going round and round on this. But it's baffling that more reasonable, logical folks can't understand that subjecting an entire race to 400 years of systematic, systemic oppression is going to leave some pyschological scarring.

Or "conditioning" if you prefer

Deeply sorry here about the 400 years. Wish there was something I could do about it but when the situation was at its worst (pre-Civil War), one side of my family was in Holland and the other side in Croatia. Doesn't excuse the conduct of Michael Vick or Pacman Jones one iota.

hondo --
Jesus Christ.
Slavery -- and the subsequent triumph of white supremacy -- had everything to do with the development of the country to which your forbears came.

Sorry boys but I got enough to deal with than to feel guilty over something I wasn't involved with, nor were any of my forebearers. I spent 12 years in integrated public schools and have spent a career covering athletic teams in college and the pros that are 65-75 percent African American. You won't find one of them who say I have a predjudiced bone in my body, but neither will I be overcome by liberal guilt.

Slavery, segregtion, integration, etc. were terrible, awful things. Discrimination still goes on, sad to say. But I'm not contributing to it and a millionaire professional athlete shouldn't be blaming his conduct on hit.

 

[bigpern23]

Either we're burned out on this topic, or Granderson's rational thinking can't quite generate the heat that Whitlock's angry missives can and do.

Perhaps both.

It's both.

I know I get tired of going round and round on this. But it's baffling that more reasonable, logical folks can't understand that subjecting an entire race to 400 years of systematic, systemic oppression is going to leave some pyschological scarring.

Or "conditioning" if you prefer

Deeply sorry here about the 400 years. Wish there was something I could do about it but when the situation was at its worst (pre-Civil War), one side of my family was in Holland and the other side in Croatia. Doesn't excuse the conduct of Michael Vick or Pacman Jones one iota.

hondo --
Jesus Christ.
Slavery -- and the subsequent triumph of white supremacy -- had everything to do with the development of the country to which your forbears came.

Sorry boys but I got enough to deal with than to feel guilty over something I wasn't involved with, nor were any of my forebearers. I spent 12 years in integrated public schools and have spent a career covering athletic teams in college and the pros that are 65-75 percent African American. You won't find one of them who say I have a predjudiced bone in my body, but neither will I be overcome by liberal guilt.

Slavery, segregtion, integration, etc. were terrible, awful things. Discrimination still goes on, sad to say. But I'm not contributing to it and a millionaire professional athlete shouldn't be blaming his conduct on hit.

I'm not sure anyone, least of all Granderson, stated (or even insinuated) you should feel guilty about a damn thing. It's a matter of trying to look at root causes of a problem as a means of solving it.

Recognizing that racism exists and has an effect on certain aspects of our society is the first step toward solving certain problems. Granderson, if you read the piece, is arguing for personal responsibility. Bruhman said systemic racism is at least partly responsible for the ill behavior exhibited by many blacks in our country.

This can be a civil discussion of some of the problems our country faces if people don't get on their high horses about what they and their ancestors have or have not done. Believe it or not, hondo, no one ever blamed the hondo clan for holding back the black man. This issue is bigger than you and your ancestors.

 

[poindexter]

So how exactly does 300 years of oppression that ended 100 years ago (give or take based on your definition of oppression) *specifically* hold back a young black male today? Specifically?

Because the young black males discussed by Granderson and Whitlock are what, say, 20 years old? They were born in 1987. They've grown up around cable tv, Gameboy, rap music, video games. That's what all american boys grow up with today, regardless of race. NWA is ancient history, let alone Richard Nixon, the Watts riots, Hiroshima, the Civil War, etc.

I'd love to hear what a black guy from SportsJournalists.com thinks about it, not one of our white members, who has read studies, but, like me, has never felt it. You hear it from enough black writers about the 300 years of oppression. I am sure they aren't lying. But I never hear the specifics. How specifically does that affect a 20 year-old black guy in 2007?

 

[Stoney]

Wonder when ESPN will realize that Granderson might be the best young writer they have on that site. Most of his stuff gets missed because they keep him buried on page 2, and instead they seem have anointed Jemele (master of the simplistic strawmen) as the one chosen to lead when racial issues arise. I find Granderson much more authentic and thoughtful.

 

[Alma]

blacks are much a victim of racism today as they ever have been. It's a different kind of racism, but they've been identified as the "other," nonetheless. not since the era of slavery have african-americans been so uniformly catagorized by white America. whether celebrated or loathed, blacks are nevertheless a race apart.

the danger in this, of course, comes the day when the hip hop culture is no longer cute or glorified or interesting to the ruling class of white america. that day is slowly coming. what i fear in the aftermath is a marginalization of black america that eventually boils over into something more violent.

anybody who thinks race relations are improving are delusional. I mean it: delusional. They're worsening yearly.

 

[henryhenry]

how can race relations be worse?

obama is a legit candidate for president. a pew study showed that only 11 percent of americans have a problem with a black candidate, compared to 45 percent for a muslim candidate.

this is not to say race relations are what they should be. but compared to 20 years ago, 30 years, c'mon...

oprah is a phenomenon that could not have happened 20 or 30 years ago - her audience is mainstream, white and black

race is a red herring

the real issue is class - nobody wants to talk about it - the monied class uses race to divide and conquer the working class - that's how you get poor southern whites voting with wall street - and too dumb to see how wall street keeps them poor