Let's start a Kevin Durant discussion

[ADifferentOkie]

Durant is the best player in college basketball, period. He is better than Carmello Anthony was as a freshman.
I can see why people say they'd take Oden, but I think they're making a mistake.
It's a bit like when Jordan was drafted behind Hakeem Olajuwon and Sam Bowie. Now, you can see why they thought Olajuwon was the way to go, and you can't call taking "The Dream" a bad decision, except that the greatest player in the history of the game was still on the board.
Sam Bowie obviously was a huge mistake.
I'm sure in both cases, those teams said, "You can't pass up a potential franchise center for a potential franchise shooting guard."
In hindsight, both were wrong.
Now, to be clear, I don't think Durant will be another Jordan, but he could be absolutely amazing in the NBA. I'm not sure that's the case with Oden.

 

[Oz]

I can see why people say they'd take Oden, but I think they're making a mistake.
It's a bit like when Jordan was drafted behind Hakeem Olajuwon and Sam Bowie. Now, you can see why they thought Olajuwon was the way to go, and you can't call taking "The Dream" a bad decision, except that the greatest player in the history of the game was still on the board.

Sam Bowie obviously was a huge mistake.

To be fair, the Blazers needed a big man and already had a shooting guard. Clyde Drexler, decent player I believe.

 

[ADifferentOkie]

Sure, but I'll bet they later wished they had teamed Jordan with Drexler, don't you think?

 

[Oz]

Sure, but I'll bet they later wished they had teamed Jordan with Drexler, don't you think?

Sure, but hindsight is always 20/20. They thought a big man could put them over the top. And it didn't make sense to draft Jordan, because they already had a future HOF player at that position.

 

[ADifferentOkie]

That is exactly my point. I can see why someone now would say to take Oden over Durant, but I think they're wrong, just like the Blazers were wrong.
Taking Oden probably wouldn't be the worst decision ever, but it's not as good as taking Durant. That's my opinion.

 

[Oz]

You point to Sam Bowie, going back through the drafts, I could probably find just as many 6-9 athletic freaks who were busts. They come in all shapes and sizes.

Blame the Blazers all you want, you didn't have to make that decision. In their shoes, you might have come to the same conclusion as they did at that time.

 

[ADifferentOkie]

I'm not blaming the Blazers, though I don't know how you could say they got it right. They passed on the greatest player in the history of the game. No matter what reasons they might have had, they made a mistake.
But my point is, I see this as a similar debate. That's all I'm saying. If I'm making the decision on who to draft right now, I'd take Durant over Oden, no matter what I needed. I think he's the better player.
It's the opposite of what the Blazers chose. Sometimes you need to fill the holes you have. Sometimes you need to simply take the best player (like the Saints did taking Bush when they already had McAlister). Sometimes that works out, sometimes it bites you.
All I'm saying is, in this particular case, I'd take the best player and hope I was right.

 

[Twoback]

That is exactly my point. I can see why someone now would say to take Oden over Durant, but I think they're wrong, just like the Blazers were wrong.
Taking Oden probably wouldn't be the worst decision ever, but it's not as good as taking Durant. That's my opinion.

Yeah, and the folks who drafted Russell, Chamberlain, Alcindor, Walton, O'Neal -- they all screwed up, too. Idiots.

 

[Twoback]

Sure, but I'll bet they later wished they had teamed Jordan with Drexler, don't you think?

Sure, but hindsight is always 20/20. They thought a big man could put them over the top. And it didn't make sense to draft Jordan, because they already had a future HOF player at that position.

Hindsight my, um, eye.
Bowie had injury problems throughout his career at Kentucky and was known to be fragile. He missed two full years because of injuries. TWO FULL YEARS.
Even if he was 100 percent healthy, he wasn't physically strong enough to be a great NBA center, and all anyone had to do to see this was watch him play in college. He averaged 10.5 points in his final college season.
The ONLY people who thought this wasn't a crazy pick were the Trail Blazers. You didn't need hindsight to know they'd screwed up. You only needed to have seen two or three games in your lifetime.

 

[ADifferentOkie]

There's the Straw Man. I never said taking a big man was a bad idea. I didn't say big men are flops. I said I think Durant is the better player, period. I think Oden is a great player, I just think Durant is better.
I also don't believe in hard and fast rules when it comes to drafting. You don't always take the QB over the TE, for example, because you might be passing on the greatest TE ever to get Ryan Leaf.
You don't always take the center, though, because just being 7-0 doesn't mean you are going to dominate in the NBA. You can win without win and you can lose with one.
You win with great coaching and great players. In this case, I'll take the great player and hope I have enough around him to make up for not having taken the big man.

 

[Montezuma's Revenge]

Okie gets it.

I don't believe in blanket rules like "you've always got to take the 7-footer."

It's a great cover-your-ass rule, like in the case of the Blazers, but that's how you make colossal blunders. I don't know how anybody, regardless of who they already had on their team, thought that having Sam Bowie was better than having Michael Jordan. No, I'm not claiming I knew MJ would be the best player ever, but it didn't take a genius to see he was great player.

 

[Twoback]

Oden is not "a" center.
He is "the" center of his generation. Players such as him come along about once every 15 years. This is not Olowokandi or Yao Ming. This is a guy who, if remains healthy, will be a Hall of Famer and will win championships.
The list of teams that have won championships without a great low-post center is pretty much limited to Michael Jordan and a few Pistons teams. We're talking about more than 50 years of NBA history and only about 10 exceptions. If you can get one of these guys, a guy like Oden, you get him.

 

[Norman Stansfield]

Oden is not "a" center.
He is "the" center of his generation. Players such as him come along about once every 15 years. This is not Olowokandi or Yao Ming. This is a guy who, if remains healthy, will be a Hall of Famer and will win championships.
The list of teams that have won championships without a great low-post center is pretty much limited to Michael Jordan and a few Pistons teams. We're talking about more than 50 years of NBA history and only about 10 exceptions. If you can get one of these guys, a guy like Oden, you get him.

Uhhhhhh, are you seriously lumping Olowokandi and Yao Ming together? As in, they're roughly the same kind of player?

Because if you are, you're an idiot.

 

[Twoback]

Only in the sense that I'm lumping them below the elite, where the arguments in favor of drafting someone like Durant over "a" center can be entertained.
Ming is a fine player, but he is not now and never will be at the level Shaq and his predecessors have reached.

 

[Norman Stansfield]

Only in the sense that I'm lumping them below the elite, where the arguments in favor of drafting someone like Durant over "a" center can be entertained.
Ming is a fine player, but he is not now and never will be at the level Shaq and his predecessors have reached.

Certainly not; Shaq was a true once-in-a-lifetime player.

Yao is coming into his own. IF he can stay healthy, and the Rockets can actually put some talent around him, he's good enough to lead the Rockets to a title someday.

But that's a big if.

 

[ADifferentOkie]

Oden is not "a" center.
He is "the" center of his generation. Players such as him come along about once every 15 years. This is not Olowokandi or Yao Ming. This is a guy who, if remains healthy, will be a Hall of Famer and will win championships.
The list of teams that have won championships without a great low-post center is pretty much limited to Michael Jordan and a few Pistons teams. We're talking about more than 50 years of NBA history and only about 10 exceptions. If you can get one of these guys, a guy like Oden, you get him.

OK, but isn't it this line of thinking that led the Pistons to take Darko Milicek (sp?) over Carmello? How'd that turn out? I know the Pistons won a title after that, Darko played none that season. Carmello would still be helping them.

 

[Norman Stansfield]

Oden is not "a" center.
He is "the" center of his generation. Players such as him come along about once every 15 years. This is not Olowokandi or Yao Ming. This is a guy who, if remains healthy, will be a Hall of Famer and will win championships.
The list of teams that have won championships without a great low-post center is pretty much limited to Michael Jordan and a few Pistons teams. We're talking about more than 50 years of NBA history and only about 10 exceptions. If you can get one of these guys, a guy like Oden, you get him.

OK, but isn't it this line of thinking that led the Pistons to take Darko Milicek (sp?) over Carmello? How'd that turn out? I know the Pistons won a title after that, Darko played none that season. Carmello would still be helping them.

Carmelo? How about D-Wade?

Let's go back and re-do that draft...how would you pick, knowing what you know now?

I'd go:

1. LeBron
2. D-Wade
3. Bosh
4. Carmelo
5. Josh Howard
6. Boris Diaw
7. Kirk Hinrich
8. Leandro Barbosa
9. Luke Ridnour
10. Chris Kaman

 

[ADifferentOkie]

That was off the top of my head, so I'd forgotten Wade was in that class. You're exactly right, and that futher proves my point.
I know Oden is a different kind of play even than Darko was supposed to be, but both were/are supposedly big men who could dominate the game.
Clearly there were several other, better players who Detroit should have taken instead. That's all I'm saying.
Basically, I don't believe in the idea of a can't-miss player. So, in most cases, you take the one you think is best. I think it's Durant. Others may say Oden. It's a difference of opinion.
Let's have this coversation again in 15 years and see who was right. Maybe we'll all be wrong and some guard from a mid-major will end up being the best from this class.

 

[Oz]

Basically, I don't believe in the idea of a can't-miss player. So, in most cases, you take the one you think is best. I think it's Durant. Others may say Oden. It's a difference of opinion.

Not too long ago, the love Durant's getting now went to Glenn Robinson. Like you said, there are no can't-miss prospects.

 

[Norman Stansfield]

Basically, I don't believe in the idea of a can't-miss player. So, in most cases, you take the one you think is best. I think it's Durant. Others may say Oden. It's a difference of opinion.

Not too long ago, the love Durant's getting now went to Glenn Robinson. Like you said, there are no can't-miss prospects.

Yeah, but Big Dog wasn't 6-10, didn't have a 7-5 wingspan and couldn't jump out of the gym like Durant.

It's the physical attributes, coupled with the obvious skills, that have people so excited about Durant's potential at the next level.

But, like someone else said earlier, if both come out this year, whichever team winds up with the No. 2 pick ain't gonna be complaining when it's all over.