Law/graduate school - repairing your GPA

[wonkintraining]

Hey, not sure if anyone here has left the business and gone back to school, but I was thinking about it myself. Hope that doesn't offend anyone - just may be ready for a change.

My problem is that I only got a 3.3. I know I could have done better, but I was busting my butt in two majors. Anyway, a lot of the law/medical/business schools I'd want to shoot for don't allow GPAs that low.

Do you guys know if you can go back and take classes at another school and "repair" your GPA to make yourself a better candidate for postgraduate work? Hopefully someone on here knows this.

 

[Armchair_QB]

It's cheaper to pay a hacker to alter your transcripts.

 

[spup1122]

The school should have a situation where you can be accepted but must maintain a specific GPA for full admission into the program.

Many programs also are willing to look at your professional experience when considering admission.

 

[zeke12]

Many schools would look at a non-trad with a 3.3.

See if there are different requirements for returning professionals.

 

[Football_Bat]

Probably not worth it. If you were a 3.0 with a bachelor's, you'd have to be a 4.0 for four years to get to a 3.5. And college is a hella lot more expensive than it was just 10 years ago.

 

[wickedwritah]

Do they have the same standards for those taking night classes? Could you maybe take a couple night/weekend law classes, boost your GPA and get in full time that way?

 

[outofplace]

Do some school-by-school research as well to find out more specific information about what schools you can get into as you are. And remember, when in doubt most will try to help you. Grad school ain't cheap and they want your money.

I'm starting a grad program this summer and I know it has helped me to remember that they want something from me, too. I didn't have to repair my GPA, but I did have to take prerequisites, which I am working on now.

The master's program I'm going into has a scholarship that I would qualify for if I keep my GPA up. So, after over 10 years since I had last walked into a college classroom, I was back in school this fall, taking two classes while working a full-time job and knowing that a big chunk of scholarship money was on the line if I didn't get A's in both.

Now that was motivation.

 

[Melodious Thunk]

As was noted higher up in the thread, non-traditional students often do have an advantage as far as not being required to hold the same GPA as "traditional" matriculants for two main reasons: first, life experience does count for making a more diverse and interesting student body, and admissions committees often will take that into consideration during their deliberations. Second, nontraditional students often do better in graduate school than their straight from undergrad counterparts, because they know what they are sacrificing to come back to school and know what it means to commit one's self fully to a career. Be sure you make it clear in your application, however, why you are changing directions and that you are wholly committed to your new path. You should not duck responsibility for your less-than-stellar performance as an undergrad (especially if asked), but also highlight how that was the "old" you which has little to do with the new, responsible, successful you.

Another point: when it comes to grades, many schools are most interested in your last two years of school, so if you "straightened out" after sowing some wild oats, that will be weighed into the mix.

Taking additional coursework won't erase the past, and it really depends on the rigor of your additional courses -- for example, when it comes to medical school, enrolling in a formal pre-med prematricuation program (where you're essentially taking the first year of medical school courses) would be seen more favorably than, say, taking a few extra science courses at the local community college. Also, supplementing academic work with experiences relevant to the new field (for med school: shadowing/volunteering in the community for health-related activities) would also be seen positively.

The admissions director of the schools at which you have some interest can often give further insights, and they are accessible, but be sure to have questions that run beyond what can be found on the school's admissions web site, and make sure you don't hit them during admissions crunch time (just after the break would be ok, but as you get into March, things get hairy).

Good luck.

 

[qtlaw]

Look at your GPA to see if you excelled in your major, then you can emphasize your major GPA (I did that.) Otherwise, just kill the LSAT (study by making it a second job and not choking).

 

[heyabbott]

Hey, not sure if anyone here has left the business and gone back to school, but I was thinking about it myself. Hope that doesn't offend anyone - just may be ready for a change.

My problem is that I only got a 3.3. I know I could have done better, but I was busting my butt in two majors. Anyway, a lot of the law/medical/business schools I'd want to shoot for don't allow GPAs that low.

Do you guys know if you can go back and take classes at another school and "repair" your GPA to make yourself a better candidate for postgraduate work? Hopefully someone on here knows this.

This was my situation close to 20 years ago. My GPA was worse than yours, but I ended up at a small state law school, (from where no Forum letters gets published)
BUST YOUR ASS AND WALLET on the LSAT prep courses. If you score significantly beyond where your GPA indicates you score, you'll have less problems getting into law school. Impressive work experience between undergrad and grad school is a major bonus for acceptance into MBA programs.

GPAs are never the true measure anyway and everyone knows it. Standardized tests are a better measure.

 

[audreyld]

I got into grad school with a 3.11 and a good GRE score. I also had time in the industry (not much) and solid clips. There are ways to make it work for you.

 

[Flip Wilson]

I got into grad school, provisionally, with a very, very low (barely-graduating level) undergrad GPA. I did well in my first couple of classes and had the provisionally removed. Ended up with a 4.0 all the way through grad school. I tell my students (I teach journalism at a college now) that I nearly doubled my undergrad GPA in grad school.

 

[Cracker]

I got into a Tier 1 law school with a 2.7/163. I was five years out of undergrad. LSAT is much more important than GPA. I didn't take a course for the LSAT, but took several official exams from the past five years and used the two Powerscore Bibles (an absolute MUST in my opinion for LSAT prep). I studied approx. 10 hours per week for four weeks and then took off work the week before the exam and took two full exams per day M-Th. I think I could've gotten a better score if I'd put in more time, but I ended up getting in where I wanted to go, so all is good.

In my personal statement I stressed that I was a different person than I was at 20-23 and had grown a lot from being in the working world, and that my primary focus in undergrad was working for the student paper for clips since GPA is essentially a non-factor (compared to clips/experience) for getting journalism jobs.

The basic line of thinking for LS admission committees is that GPA measures your work ethic while LSAT measures your intelligence and ability to do the necessary work as a first-year student. If you do well on the latter, your work experience can adequately compensate for the former.

 

[Mystery_Meat]

One possible tripwire is that if you retake courses in college, the original grades are factored into your final GPA by the LSAC people, even if your "official" GPA doesn't. I know I retook a handful of classes when I transferred schools; they don't get counted in my GPA (3.3) but would be by LSAC.

I got a 157 on the LSAT back in the summer of 2004 with little prep. Is it worth my while to retake it if I decide to get off my fat ass and get into law school?

One mitigating factor there: You know how they tell you to pick a letter and answer any of your unanswered questions with it when you're about to run out of time, so you can at least have an outside chance of getting points? Well I picked "b" and dove into the ungodly Games section, a Orwell-worthy example of an inappropriate name. With one minute left I had two Games examples totaling 10 questions that I still had to answer. I figured out the first one, then went B-crazy over the last nine.

When I got my test score back, I also got the answer key. I looked for those nine questions. The order of the correct answers:

B-D-B-B-B-B-B-B-B

No ****.

 

[wickedwritah]

What's the top score on the LSAT? I think I'd heard 180.

And how hard is the LSAT to prep for? Are we talking more common-sense essays and stuff? Multiple choice? A combination?

 

[User 1019]

I'm not in grad school, but I'd think if you went back to school for a couple of basketweaving classes, the committee that reviews your past education would realize you just went back to take some gpa-boosters, right?

 

[Mystery_Meat]

The LSAT doesn't measure knowledge but process. It never hurts to take a prep course, though even the one-day deals can be pretty pricey. When I took it, you get five sections (four count). You'll get at least one reading comprehension section, an analogies section and a section of logic games (if Albert has to sit next to a girl and Bertha must sit next to a redhead and the seating arrangment must go girl-boy-girl-girl-boy, then how many places can Debra sit?). They recently added an essay section -- I took it at a law school convention a couple of years ago because they were paying like 20 bucks for volunteers, and it turns out to literally be the same essay I had to write as part of my college exit exam.

It's all multiple choice, but the kicker is that no matter how hard you study and how many classes you take and how many practice exams you do, you'll NEVER have enough time to properly answer all the questions. It's part of the design.

 

[heyabbott]

The LSAT is basically an IQ test, and the kind you've never taken before and will never see again.

 

[Cracker]

I spent extensive time researching the LSAT itself (time that probably should've been spent actually STUDYING for it, but like I said, I'm in where I want to be so no complaints), so I will try to answer what I can. I can't tell you how to get a 175, but I'll help with what I know about the exam.

What's the top score on the LSAT? I think I'd heard 180.

180 is the top. But 170 is top two percent. The exam is graded on a curve. See below.

I got a 157 on the LSAT back in the summer of 2004 with little prep. Is it worth my while to retake it if I decide to get off my fat ass and get into law school?

In short... yes. The difference between a 157 and a 162 is 15 percentile points. but the difference between a 167 and a 172 is only 3.4 percentile points. Getting into the 160s is a big difference.

the ungodly Games section,

If you retake, seriously... buy the Powerscore Logic Games Bible. I was getting 10-12 on my prep tests. Finished the book, and was getting 18-22. Ended up getting 21/22 on the actual exam. It was the single-best investment I have ever made.

the committee that reviews your past education would realize you just went back to take some gpa-boosters, right?

Generally not unless you are applying to Yale-Stanford-Harvard, or schools of that ilk. They get SO many apps from SO many places, that they often just look at the numbers. If you are on the fringe, then that stuff can matter a little more.

They recently added an essay section

The essay doesn't count on the score. May change in the future, but as of the upcoming Feb exam, it is not scored.

no matter how hard you study and how many classes you take and how many practice exams you do, you'll NEVER have enough time to properly answer all the questions. It's part of the design.

Time actually wasn't an issue for me at all except a little on the RC section. That's the main reason I am pimping the two Powerscore Bibles (logic games and logic reasoning). They helped me SO much with speed, and I really didn't study nearly as much as I probably should have.

 

[wickedwritah]

Awesome stuff, Cracker.