June 6 The Longest Day

[Boom_70]

This day becomes more meaningful with each passing year. Imagine if
D Day failed. It's hard to look at the veterans still able to travel to
Normandy and not weep for their heroism and their loss of comrades in
arms.

 

[heyabbott]

DDay only contrasts the miserable performance of the US military since then. Only 3 battlefield wins in 70 years over Iraq (twice) and Grenada. Best equipped Army. Ever. poor political, civilian and military leadership at the General officer level and above.

Can't hold ground and can't defeat an enemy. 10 years in Afghanistan compared to less than 4 years to defeat Germany and Japan. The will to win must match the will to fight.

 

[nmmetsfan]

Talk about comparing apples with hand grenades.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

It is interesting how D-Day has come to be the symbolic holiday for US participation in World War II rather than V-E or V-J Day. There's no corresponding occasion for the Pacific Theater at all.

 

[BTExpress]

Imagine if D Day failed.

The war was lost for Germany at Stalingrad.

D-Day was the knife in the heart of an enemy that already had a bullet through its skull.

 

[YankeeFan]

Chuck Todd has been interviewing a paratrooper about his experiences.

The guy can tell a story. I think, out of deference to his age and experience, Todd just let him go uninterrupted.

Killing German's; taking prisoners; getting captured; in the hospital; escapes with the help of a doctor; meets up with Patton, who gives him a Purple Heart, and some Johnny Walker Black; gets back to England, then jumps back into Holland.

Hell of a tale, and a big personality.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

The war was really lost for Germany the day Hitler declared war on the U.S. The balance of forces became terminally in the Allies' favor when our resources, human and material, came into play.

 

[Boom_70]

Chuck Todd has been interviewing a paratrooper about his experiences.

The guy can tell a story. I think, out of deference to his age and experience, Todd just let him go uninterrupted.

Killing German's; taking prisoners; getting captured; in the hospital; escapes with the help of a doctor; meets up with Patton, who gives him a Purple Heart, and some Johnny Walker Black; gets back to England, then jumps back into Holland.

Hell of a tale, and a big personality.

Heard those guys. Some amazing stories. Glad Chuck let them go on
and not break for commercial.

 

[Boom_70]

The war was really lost for Germany the day Hitler declared war on the U.S. The balance of forces became terminally in the Allies' favor when our resources, human and material, came into play.

Some interesting decision points that turned out to be correct starting
with decision to make our entry point in North Africa.

 

[Huggy]

My uncle fought at D-Day with the British Army, he was in the war for the duration. I only found out at his funeral that he had been at Normandy, he would never talk about the war. My old man said he asked him all sorts of questions about it over the years and he would never discuss it. My old man served in the British Army and spent some time Korea and he said before he shipped out they took them to Normandy as well as Arnhem as a bit of a history lesson.

Canada has changed its military direction since Korea, focusing on peacekeeping, but it had a major role in D-Day and there has been much media coverage, not only of the ceremony, but of Canada's preparation for the operation.

 

[Big Circus]

It is interesting how D-Day has come to be the symbolic holiday for US participation in World War II rather than V-E or V-J Day. There's no corresponding occasion for the Pacific Theater at all.

It's also the anniversary of Midway, which tends to get overlooked a bit.

I think the reasoning is more that the Japanese weren't as much of a threat to the democratic nations as the Nazis and the Russians. Japan was a regional power.

 

[Boom_70]

It is interesting how D-Day has come to be the symbolic holiday for US participation in World War II rather than V-E or V-J Day. There's no corresponding occasion for the Pacific Theater at all.

It's also the anniversary of Midway, which tends to get overlooked a bit.

I think the reasoning is more that the Japanese weren't as much of a threat to the democratic nations as the Nazis and the Russians. Japan was a regional power.

Japan was playing in the Mid America Conference at that point

 

[Boom_70]

Interesting article by Michael Beschloss on why Ike did not celebrate D Day

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/20/upshot/why-ike-wouldnt-celebrate-the-d-day-anniversary.html

"Had President Eisenhower been surrounded by some latter-day political image-makers, they might have implored him to make the most of the occasion. (“Mr. President, let’s remind Americans of what you achieved in 1944! Sir, your party is having some problems with the midterms this fall — it would help if we could boost your approval numbers!”)

Had anyone dared to offer Ike such gratuitous advice, however, he would have had them expelled from the Oval Office. Pointedly he did not visit Normandy or stage a White House ceremony to extol his own leadership."

 

[Shoeless Joe]

Unless you were one of the men coming off a landing craft or out of an airplane, I don't think you can truly comprehend what those people went through that day. I'm certain most of us don't even want to imagine. The first 30 minutes of Saving Private Ryan gives us a glimpse, but it's still not real. I salute and weep for those who died and live.

As for the difference in Europe/Pacific, a lot of comes down to fighting the Germans and rolling victoriously into major cities was sexy whereas blowing the Japanese off one nameless, swamp filled island only to move on to the next didn't have the same appeal.

 

[YankeeFan]

My uncle fought at D-Day with the British Army, he was in the war for the duration. I only found out at his funeral that he had been at Normandy, he would never talk about the war. My old man said he asked him all sorts of questions about it over the years and he would never discuss it. My old man served in the British Army and spent some time Korea and he said before he shipped out they took them to Normandy as well as Arnhem as a bit of a history lesson.

Canada has changed its military direction since Korea, focusing on peacekeeping, but it had a major role in D-Day and there has been much media coverage, not only of the ceremony, but of Canada's preparation for the operation.

The "Round Number" anniversaries get a lot more attention here than the crooked number ones.

I'm surprised it isn't a bigger deal in Canada.

 

[Boom_70]

Unless you were one of the men coming off a landing craft or out of an airplane, I don't think you can truly comprehend what those people went through that day. I'm certain most of us don't even want to imagine. The first 30 minutes of Saving Private Ryan gives us a glimpse, but it's still not real. I salute and weep for those who died and live.

As for the difference in Europe/Pacific, a lot of comes down to fighting the Germans and rolling victoriously into major cities was sexy whereas blowing the Japanese off one nameless, swamp filled island only to move on to the next didn't have the same appeal.

Agreed. No way to comprehend. Can't imagine what it was like when the gate
opened on those landing crafts.

Saving Private Ryan certainly was a great tribute to that group. I remember the
first time I watched it in theater. The movie ended and no one got up. You could hear
faint weeping all over the theater.

 

[heyabbott]

Unless you were one of the men coming off a landing craft or out of an airplane, I don't think you can truly comprehend what those people went through that day. I'm certain most of us don't even want to imagine. The first 30 minutes of Saving Private Ryan gives us a glimpse, but it's still not real. I salute and weep for those who died and live.

As for the difference in Europe/Pacific, a lot of comes down to fighting the Germans and rolling victoriously into major cities was sexy whereas blowing the Japanese off one nameless, swamp filled island only to move on to the next didn't have the same appeal.

Part of the failure to celebrate to victory over Japan as the Eurpoean Victory is celebrated is the atomic bomb. You cant celebrate the use of the bomb, you can respect it or not, appreciate it or not, be thankful for the American lives it saved but to celebrate it like D-Day is unseemly. At least politically and in the media

 

[Shoeless Joe]

One thing I have never understood is why five minutes before the landing began they didn't have every American and British heavy bomber fly over and blow the German gun emplacements to oblivion. It seems the paratroopers and naval bombardment focused on the bigger guns that were a few miles inland. We had been bombing the hell out of Germany and France for two years. It seems as if they could have sent a thousand planes over to flatten the cliff machine gun bunkers.

 

[Big Circus]

It is interesting how D-Day has come to be the symbolic holiday for US participation in World War II rather than V-E or V-J Day. There's no corresponding occasion for the Pacific Theater at all.

Coming back to this...it doesn't get the level of celebration that D-Day does, but I'd say Iwo Jima is your corresponding Pacific image.

 

[Boom_70]

One thing I have never understood is why five minutes before the landing began they didn't have every American and British heavy bomber fly over and blow the German gun emplacements to oblivion. It seems the paratroopers and naval bombardment focused on the bigger guns that were a few miles inland. We had been bombing the hell out of Germany and France for two years. It seems as if they could have sent a thousand planes over to flatten the cliff machine gun bunkers.

I always heard that they bombed Calais as diversionary tactic in hope
that The Germans would amass their forces there making it easier
for the Normandy landing .