Job search communication

[Greg Johnson]

Amazing how lost moral obligations have become in the business world. As little as they might seem, it's probably why so many give up in this field.

 

[Ace]

Amazing how lost moral obligations have become in the business world. As little as they might seem, it's probably why so many give up in this field.

It's not just this field.

At most places if you apply via their website for a position (which may be the only way), you probably will get an email saying your resume was submitted and they may contact you.

If you aren't picked for an interview, you probably won't ever hear back from the company. I applied for communication type jobs across a variety of companies and this was standard.

Not only is it hard to get feedback, it's very difficult to find out who the actual hiring manager is if you want to reach out directly. Bigger places use HR bots to scrub the resumes and if you don't have the right set of skills or buzzwords you are toast.

At least in newspapers, it's pretty easy to find out who the editor or sports editor is if you are applying for a job there.

It is ALWAYS better to get your name in front of the person doing the hiring in some way other than hoping you make in through the HR screening. Find someone who can put in a call for you to the person doing the hiring, etc.

I think most managers would want to feel like they "picked" the person rather than HR found them. So the end around is the move you want to make.

 

[Ace]

A few years ago I drove all day to an interview and stayed overnight at a hotel at my own expense. Everything went well and I later received a call from one of the hiring editors confirming that. He said it could still be a couple weeks before I heard one way or another as they were still interviewing. Seemed reasonable. About a month went by and I hadn't heard anything, so I sent a follow-up email. I was told I was still being considered. Three weeks later — now a total of seven weeks after interviewing — I got a call with an offer and was told I have just 24 hours to make a decision. I insisted that wasn't happening and after 72 hours declined the offer. It was a decent job, but left me with a questionable opinion of the place.

Tweener,

This is pretty typical, in my experience.

The hiring editor may think (hope) to get the green light in two weeks to pull the trigger, but then HR or the boss or corporate wants to wait. It almost always takes longer and is out of the control of the hiring editor.

Then when an offer is made, they want to move quickly. Maybe they have a small window when they can bring someone in before corporate puts a freeze on or whatever.

If I was making the offer, I would ask the person to think about it and let me know after talking it over with whomever. I wouldn't demand 24 hours, but that's pretty standard.

I've had people who wanted to accept on the phone but I told them to consider it and get back with me the next day.

I don't think the hiring process is a very good indicator of the workplace as a whole.

 

[JohnHammond]

If you don't get an interview, you shouldn't get more than some generic reply from the application system or HR. Managers have plenty of work to do, and also don't want to work more than they have to.

Also, I doubt many people want to know the real reason they weren't hired. Everyone thinks they're the best candidate, but getting a job isn't the same as receiving a participant ribbon for field day.

 

[Tweener]

Tweener,

This is pretty typical, in my experience.

I don't think the hiring process is a very good indicator of the workplace as a whole.

I respect your opinion, Ace. Indeed, it may have been pretty standard. But the entire thing just rubbed me the wrong way, and it was more than the 24 hours they offered me to make a decision. In some cases, that's more than enough time. However, I told them throughout the process that I was interviewing elsewhere and I just so happened to have another offer on the table at the time theirs came in -- and another on the way, which I ultimately took. So, after seven weeks of relative silence, they call out of the blue and expect me to make a life decision in such a short amount of time? And when I asked for more time I was given the "is this the kind of indecision we can expect on the job?" routine.

It didn't help that one of the other places where I had interviewed flew me out, took me for meals and provided me with a pretty decent place to stay. The place that offered me 24 hours never offered to help with travel or hotel and interviewed me in a vacant part of the office to avoid running into the current beat writer, who was still on staff. So while it may have been relatively standard, I do believe I gleaned enough information during the hiring process that were valid indicators of the workplace.

 

[Ace]

I respect your opinion, Ace. Indeed, it may have been pretty standard. But the entire thing just rubbed me the wrong way, and it was more than the 24 hours they offered me to make a decision. In some cases, that's more than enough time. However, I told them throughout the process that I was interviewing elsewhere and I just so happened to have another offer on the table at the time theirs came in -- and another on the way, which I ultimately took. So, after seven weeks of relative silence, they call out of the blue and expect me to make a life decision in such a short amount of time? And when I asked for more time I was given the "is this the kind of indecision we can expect on the job?" routine.

It didn't help that one of the other places where I had interviewed flew me out, took me for meals and provided me with a pretty decent place to stay. The place that offered me 24 hours never offered to help with travel or hotel and interviewed me in a vacant part of the office to avoid running into the current beat writer, who was still on staff. So while it may have been relatively standard, I do believe I gleaned enough information during the hiring process that were valid indicators of the workplace.

Oh. Did not realize you had other irons in the fire.

I understand your reaction.

If I were the hiring manager and you said you had another offer, I would have tried to get a timetable from you and given you time to make an informed decision.

I would not want someone who wishes he had taken another job or wants to bolt in a month.

So I would give you at least a week or two of time to make an informed decision. But I wouldn't want someone putting me off a month hoping to snag an interview at the prestigious Podunk Daily.

 

[ejyankee]

I've interviewed for two jobs in the last year and only found out that I didn't the position when it was announced elsewhere that someone else had. Then earlier this summer, I was the one that got the job and had to read complaints from other applicants that found out they didn't get the job when it was announced that I did. That didn't feel good either. Just made me more determined not to be that kind of manager.

 

[KJIM]

Amazing how lost moral obligations have become in the business world. As little as they might seem, it's probably why so many give up in this field.

It's never, ever been just this field. I've said that before in other threads and I've said that three times on this thread. It's difficult for me to comprehend why many don't seem to understand that.

Calling it a moral obligation is interesting, as morals in society at large have changed drastically through the years.

 

[swingline]

It's catch as catch can I reckon but to pay for someone to fly in, rent a car and a hotel room as well as pick up incidentals just for an interview, and then not tell them a decision is pitiful.

My experience is the opposite: In those instances when I've been flown in, put up in a hotel and had a car rental, I've always been offered the job. The last time this happened (at three places within a month), I had three offers at one time. I knocked one out of the running because I didn't like the town's vibe, then it came down to money, and I took the one that offered significantly more than the other.

 

[steveu]

I'd like to have your luck, Swingline. I got flown in, put up in a hotel and had a car rental... and then found out via APSE that someone else got offered the job. lol

In all honesty, though, I can't complain. In this day and age it's good for a shop to bring someone in... and I essentially got a free vacation out of it.

 

[Greg Johnson]

It's never, ever been just this field. I've said that before in other threads and I've said that three times on this thread. It's difficult for me to comprehend why many don't seem to understand that.

Calling it a moral obligation is interesting, as morals in society at large have changed drastically through the years.

Where did I imply that it is exclusive to this field? I referenced "this field" because we're talking about journalism, but I very clearly said "the business world".

Morals are arbitrary, I guess, but I think we can all agree that common courtesy is one of them. I was simply discerning a moral obligation from a legal obligation.

 

[Greg Johnson]

I respect your opinion, Ace. Indeed, it may have been pretty standard. But the entire thing just rubbed me the wrong way, and it was more than the 24 hours they offered me to make a decision. In some cases, that's more than enough time. However, I told them throughout the process that I was interviewing elsewhere and I just so happened to have another offer on the table at the time theirs came in -- and another on the way, which I ultimately took. So, after seven weeks of relative silence, they call out of the blue and expect me to make a life decision in such a short amount of time? And when I asked for more time I was given the "is this the kind of indecision we can expect on the job?" routine.

It didn't help that one of the other places where I had interviewed flew me out, took me for meals and provided me with a pretty decent place to stay. The place that offered me 24 hours never offered to help with travel or hotel and interviewed me in a vacant part of the office to avoid running into the current beat writer, who was still on staff. So while it may have been relatively standard, I do believe I gleaned enough information during the hiring process that were valid indicators of the workplace.

"Is this the kind of indecision we can expect on the job?"

lol, what an irrelevant cop-out. Taking seven weeks to make an offer for a position isn't indecision though, huh?

 

[Riptide]

I drove in, had the interview, came back the next day for the wrap-up, and the position had been frozen overnight.

The SE bolted two weeks later.

 

[Tweener]

"Is this the kind of indecision we can expect on the job?"

lol, what an irrelevant cop-out. Taking seven weeks to make an offer for a position isn't indecision though, huh?

That logic was lost on them, evidently.

 

[Bronco77]

And when I asked for more time I was given the "is this the kind of indecision we can expect on the job?" routine.

What an awful response. What does asking for more than 24 hours to make a life-altering decision have to do with how you will react on the job? Certainly there are situations at work that require snap decisions, but if I were hiring I'd look favorably upon a candidate who thinks things through.

It's like when I talked to Gannett about a position at one of the editing centers a few years ago. I'd known the guy doing the hiring for many years and an offer was almost a sure thing, but he wanted me to drop everything I was doing and fly in the day after he contacted me, which would've required a novel excuse for skipping work. And then he said, "We want to be sure you'll take the job before we fly you in." Told him I couldn't make a decision like that without a bit more time to think it over, and that was the end of it (and my wife, who didn't want to move, would have nixed it anyway). At least I saved Gannett the cost of a plane ticket.

 

[KJIM]

Where did I imply that it is exclusive to this field? I referenced "this field" because we're talking about journalism, but I very clearly said "the business world".

Morals are arbitrary, I guess, but I think we can all agree that common courtesy is one of them. I was simply discerning a moral obligation from a legal obligation.

I don't think there is any agreement on what is considered common courtesy.
Interview communication? Cell phones in the gym? Thank you notes for birthdays? Opening doors for people?

That's a whole 'nother thread, but in general, I so think people agree that common courtesy should be followed, but the definition of common courtesy has changed through the years.

 

[Greg Johnson]

I don't think there is any agreement on what is considered common courtesy.
Interview communication? Cell phones in the gym? Thank you notes for birthdays? Opening doors for people?

That's a whole 'nother thread, but in general, I so think people agree that common courtesy should be followed, but the definition of common courtesy has changed through the years.

You're making this way more complicated than it needs to be.

Is radio silence common courtesy? Is leaving recruits out to dry after insisting you'll get back to them common courtesy? This isn't exactly brain surgery.

 

[JohnHammond]

The easiest way to cope is remember you don't have the job until you have the job. Continue to look for a job until you accept a job. Why stress about what you can't control?

 

[Riptide]

What an awful response. What does asking for more than 24 hours to make a life-altering decision have to do with how you will react on the job? Certainly there are situations at work that require snap decisions, but if I were hiring I'd look favorably upon a candidate who thinks things through.

It's like when I talked to Gannett about a position at one of the editing centers a few years ago. I'd known the guy doing the hiring for many years and an offer was almost a sure thing, but he wanted me to drop everything I was doing and fly in the day after he contacted me, which would've required a novel excuse for skipping work. And then he said, "We want to be sure you'll take the job before we fly you in." Told him I couldn't make a decision like that without a bit more time to think it over, and that was the end of it (and my wife, who didn't want to move, would have nixed it anyway). At least I saved Gannett the cost of a plane ticket.

Same thing happened to me with a Gannett center, maybe even in the same week. Guy wanted to hire me over the phone, 1,200 miles away, without a visit and a chance to look each other over and all that. Then he called back 30 minutes later and said the job was mine if I could move there and start the following Monday, which was four days away.

I have to think he waited too long to fill out his team, and then someone higher up said he had to have everyone up and running by the next week. I didn't want to work for Gannett anyway, and that pretty much sealed it forever.

The guy got laid off a few months later.

 

[Ace]

Same thing happened to me with a Gannett center, maybe even in the same week. Guy wanted to hire me over the phone, 1,200 miles away, without a visit and a chance to look each other over and all that. Then he called back 30 minutes later and said the job was mine if I could move there and start the following Monday, which was four days away.

I have to think he waited too long to fill out his team, and then someone higher up said he had to have everyone up and running by the next week. I didn't want to work for Gannett anyway, and that pretty much sealed it forever.

The guy got laid off a few months later.

He sounds like a real go-getter. I don't understand.