J-school: Worth it?

[playthrough]

I try to go the other way here. Look at your average school's list of majors and you'll find a lot that don't exactly have a cornucopia of ready-made jobs waiting for graduates. An English Literature degree is more useful than Journalism?

Of course, I'll have a kid in college in 15 years. She and I will have a long talk if she wants to go into a j-school. But I'm not going to laugh her out of the room.

 

[mustangj17]

I'm getting my masters but it definitely wont be in journalism. It's going to have to be all that crappy web design and coding crap so I can have a job in 5 years. Wait. Five months.

 

[2muchcoffeeman]

Several friends of mine started in journalism grad school in September. We've been debating this for a while, but I never brought it on here.

With newspapers and magazines struggling so much, and no clear end in sight, are there any benefits in going to a J-school? Or does the year or two of extra college loans just pile on more debt and delay the inevitability of struggling?

Tell them to find a new major quickly.

 

[deskslave]

I try to go the other way here. Look at your average school's list of majors and you'll find a lot that don't exactly have a cornucopia of ready-made jobs waiting for graduates. An English Literature degree is more useful than Journalism?

Of course, I'll have a kid in college in 15 years. She and I will have a long talk if she wants to go into a j-school. But I'm not going to laugh her out of the room.

With any luck, in 15 years J-schools will be teaching useful and relevant skills and it won't seem like such a terrible idea.

But let's just say I'm not holding my breath.

 

[WaylonJennings]

There is one exception - Columbia University.

To me, it's the one route, and I'm including the old-fashioned ladder to the top, that would seem to give a 22-year-old a fighting chance these days.

That depends, of course, what your career goals are. If you want to win Pulitzers or work at SI, go there. If you want to be a college or pro beat writer or write for Yahoo or Rivals.com, don't waste your time.

 

[WaylonJennings]

I try to go the other way here. Look at your average school's list of majors and you'll find a lot that don't exactly have a cornucopia of ready-made jobs waiting for graduates. An English Literature degree is more useful than Journalism?

Of course, I'll have a kid in college in 15 years. She and I will have a long talk if she wants to go into a j-school. But I'm not going to laugh her out of the room.

With any luck, in 15 years J-schools will be teaching useful and relevant skills and it won't seem like such a terrible idea.

But let's just say I'm not holding my breath.

To me, the biggest problem isn't what they teach. Columbia, obviously, churns out great journalists. World-class journalists.

The problem to me is the cost. I can see paying big money for a top-shelf JD, MBA or MD. But not for a journalism MA or MS.

I've said this before and I'll reiterate it. A JD should be the new journalism graduate degree. It costs more, of course, but at least there are other, lucrative options available to you in the event you don't become Jeffrey Toobin (and, to cut that criticism off at the pass, I realize that there are plenty of law schools that are as big of a racket as journalism graduate programs. More even).

 

[editorhoo]

My only worthwhile J-school class was Magazine Writing. Everything else was learned at the college paper or stringing for the daily.

Same here.

My journalism teacher in high school was journalism minor at the same J-School I attended, and she basically taught me everything there was to know that you can teach about journalism. So when I got to J-School, I was highly disappointed because I wasn't taught much that I didn't already wasn't aware of.

There were only three classes I thought were worth it -- Magazine Journalism, Journalsim History and Journalism Law. My first newspaper journalism class was Intro To Journalistic Writing. We learned how to write ledes and **** like that, which was a complete joke to me because I had started stringer work for a daily when I was in high school, so I'd already been doing that for three years.

Even when newspapers were successful, I'm not sure journalism as a major was necessary. It's truly a field where you learn from on-the-job experience more than in the classroom.

And now that the industry is dying, I think anyone pursuing a degree in journalism should be issued a strait-jacket and a padded room, because you are certifiable.

 

[2muchcoffeeman]

Mag writing, Intro to Newswriting, Mass Comm Law, Editing.

Only classes you need. And trust me, the last one is as needed as the other three. There are some really sucktastic copy editors out there.

 

[Piotr Rasputin]

One of these monthly "I learned everything I needed to know on the school paper!! Grad school SUCKS!!!!!" threads should be pinned at the top of the page. Saves the trouble of repeating the same blanket statements over and over again.

School is what you make of it. Major in what suits you best, if you do choose higher education.

And no one's individual experience with a guy who went to a big school but has a crappy job, or a dude who went to a small school but now covers the Knicks, means a damn thing to someone else's situation.

Do what is best for yourself. And get the hell away from newspapers.

 

[shotglass]

Mag writing, Intro to Newswriting, Mass Comm Law, Editing.

Only classes you need. And trust me, the last one is as needed as the other three. There are some really sucktastic copy editors out there.

Yes, that pretty much covers it.

Meanwhile, you may be assured that not all of us are as fatalistic about the future of journalism as our friend Mizzou.

 

[mustangj17]

While we are speaking of grad school... does anyone know about any programs or certificate programs at any universities that focus on digital media? Digital reporting, database reporting, audio/video editing, html, flash... all that stuff?

I've found some that focus more on video game design and I feel that's a waste. I've also found some certificate programs from community colleges but I feel like if I'm spending money on 30 plus more credit hours, I better get my masters out of it.

And online programs aren't out of the question since I would rather keep my only source of income. In fact, they seem to be a top option right now.

 

[User 4332]

While we are speaking of grad school... does anyone know about any programs or certificate programs at any universities that focus on digital media? Digital reporting, database reporting, audio/video editing, html, flash... all that stuff?

In my neck of the woods, Elon has launched a masters in Interactive Media that fits much of what you're talking about, except it's full-time and in person

http://www.elon.edu/e-web/academics/communications/interactive_media/

Its nearest competitor, is preparing an online masters focused on digital media geared for part-time students. It's not up and running just yet, although my understanding is that it will be soon:

http://www.jomc.unc.edu/the_news/school_news/school_receives_grant_to_explore_online_masters_degree_program_925_2.html

 

[Mark2010]

If you major in journalism these days, you should be slapped a few times with a reality stick.

If it's what you want to do, best of luck and I'd encourage anyone to follow their dreams, but for God's sake, major in something where there is an actual future.

Which would be??? Banking? Real estate? Retail? Automotive? Is there any industry that isn't hurting right now?

 

[Wenders]

I have relatives who nag me about why I don't pursue a master's degree in journalism. They think journalism is just like other professions, in which an advanced degree means more money.

I tell them that journalism isn't like other professions, and that going back to school for an M.A. in that subject would be like throwing money down the drain. They never could quite understand that.

Ditto. My family was actually taking bets at my grad party on how long it was going to take me to go back to school. By that time, I was sick of school, lecture, exams, quizzes, enrollment, the college newspaper, everything. I told my mom to take the NEVER bet.

They actually still don't understand that I don't work an 8-5 job. I'm serious. I've attempted to explain to them that I go in in the late afternoon and work until the morning but THEY JUST DON'T GET IT. It's infuriating. Then again, I'm the youngest in the family and I'm convinced that most of them still see me as a seven-year-old.

Mag writing, Intro to Newswriting, Mass Comm Law, Editing.

Only classes you need. And trust me, the last one is as needed as the other three. There are some really sucktastic copy editors out there.

My E1 class was the best class ever. Our professor drilled us so much on crap that we never thought we'd need to know, like state abbreviations for datelines, how to write an address, etc., not to mention all of the grammar stuff that we had forgotten since eighth grade to the point that I don't even need to reach for an AP stylebook for most of my writing stuff.

My advice (and you can take this with a grain of salt, I've been out of school for all of six months) is to take classes on several different things and major in something else. You can still take j-school classes and not be in the actual school. I would add to 2mcm's list a design course. Learning how to design - especially across different platforms, like InDesign and Quark - can be a major bargaining tool when you're looking to get out there. I know that's what got me hired at my current job. Knowing how to do it all: copy-editing, writing, designing and bonus points if you can take pictures and/or wrangle a video camera is a major thing employers are looking for now. We shouldn't HAVE to know it all, but knowing how to do everything definitely helps your portfolio and makes you a better candidate for almost any job.

 

[shotglass]

I will say this about an advanced degree in journalism.

While I don't believe the experience makes you an appreciably better journalist, it CAN open doors at the middle-management level. I think many people would be surprised at how often that M.A. tips the scales in a sports editor opening. (Not at a 7K daily, mind you, but somewhere larger.)

 

[WaylonJennings]

I will say this about an advanced degree in journalism.

While I don't believe the experience makes you an appreciably better journalist, it CAN open doors at the middle-management level. I think many people would be surprised at how often that M.A. tips the scales in a sports editor opening. (Not at a 7K daily, mind you, but somewhere larger.)

I'll have to dig up the Columbia booklet I have somewhere (I strongly considered it at some point).

The curriculum is outstanding. Investigative Reporting. Police Reporting. Long-form Feature Writing.

And on and on and on.

I know you can get that experience "on the job." But the truth is, and maybe this will come off as elitist, you're going to, in general, be better trained for it by someone who won Polks and Pulitzers at the Washington Post than you are from a lifer at a 10K community paper. Someone who actually wants to train you and is there to train you.

 

[IGotQuestions]

do not major in journalism unless you're sure you want a career in advertising or PR work. paying college expenses to learn about reporting/writing isn't worth it in my book.

 

[Slash]

I never thought a masters made much difference for a journalist unless he/she wanted to teach. I hate to say it, but I wouldnt encourage a HS senior to major in journalism because of the aforementioned trouble the industry is in.

 

[WaylonJennings]

No one else has weighed in.

Columbia: Exception? No?

 

[WaylonJennings]

No one else has weighed in.

Columbia: Exception? No?

I don't see how Columbia is appreciably better than Northwestern or Syracuse, no. Not sure why you're pimping the place so hard.

Because I've read the Pulitzer.org bios on winners and a ton of them went there. I have no dog in the fight.