It shouldn't be this hard

[alleyallen]

OK...I start this with the understanding of how it could turn out, but what the hell.

There was a great episode of The West Wing in Season 3, I think, called 20 Hours in America. A two-parter. And in it, Toby and Josh meet a guy in Indiana who has been taking his daughter to visit Notre Dame. The man was so incredibly proud of this, and he started talking about how life is supposed to be hard, that through hard work and reaching your goals, you feel richer than if you actually had millions.

But then he says something that's really stuck with me.

It should be hard. But it shouldn't be this hard.

And, unfortunately, that's what it seems like life has become, from a financial standpoint. For millions of Americans. For me.

I like to think I'm a good person. I work very hard at my job and in raising Little Man, I pay a mortgage on a house my ex and I got together five years ago. I own my own car and have zero credit cards or credit card debt.

And yet, despite getting paid more than I ever have in my life, I sometimes wonder if even I could make it, given my circumstances.

I've felt the way of financial need before, but never have the stakes been so high as they have since Little Man and I became a family of two.

It just shouldn't be this hard.

 

[Colton]

Alley: Amen. That's a terrific episode of one of my favorite shows and it really strikes a chord with me.

You're 100 percent correct: It shouldn't be this hard... but of course, I have no solution.

Damn.

 

[dooley_womack1]

All I can say is Alley is right on. Feeling your pain, best of luck.

 

[Just_An_SID]

Money issues will come and go many times during your life. Don't panic, just as quickly as they came, they are likely to go away.

I had no money when I got out of school and I ran up thousands of dollars of debt just to get by. Then, a new job came, money got better and I did much better job of paying attention to my finances. Pretty soon, I was out of debt.

That lasted awhile. I took a better job for more money, sold my house and bought a new one. But the economy sucks. My $50 in gas each month has turned into $180. Everything else is up. I am carrying a little debt and I slowed putting money away for a rainy day.

But I already see relief. Just got a 5-percent raise -- the highest in awhile -- and the taxes on my place went down, lowering my payment almost $100 a month. I also finally paid off my car.

The tide has turned.

Just keep plugging away, do the best you can, don't waste money (especially when things are tight) and things will improve.

 

[ArnoldBabar]

I lived most of my life worrying about money every minute of every day, tossing and turning through every night worrying about how I could possibly get to the next month. I'm hardly rich now, but in a position where I can mostly live without that constant stress. And my life is completely different.

Poverty kills people from the inside. Best to you AA.

 

[Just_An_SID]

My mom and dad had totally different approaches to money, which was one of the reasons why they split after 28 years.

We didn't have much money growing up and my dad was always the one who said no. He didn't want to do anything special or anything fun because he said we couldn't afford it.

Mom on the other hand was always pushing the envelope. She would splurge on something so that we could all enjoy it and then save in another area to pay for it.

Two different approaches to the same problem. One person enjoyed life. The other bitched about it.

 

[Ace]

My mom and dad had totally different approaches to money, which was one of the reasons why they split after 28 years.

We didn't have much money growing up and my dad was always the one who said no. He didn't want to do anything special or anything fun because he said we couldn't afford it.

Mom on the other hand was always pushing the envelope. She would splurge on something so that we could all enjoy it and then save in another area to pay for it.

Two different approaches to the same problem. One person enjoyed life. The other bitched about it.

That's a tough line. I think most of the "stuff" you buy is not really worth it, especially if money is tight.

But I think experiences and travel are worth it. You'll remember them for the rest of your life.

 

[Big Buckin' agate_monkey]

"It shouldn't be this hard."

1. That's what she said.

2. I didn't read anything else in here yet.

 

[Ace]

"It shouldn't be this hard."

1. That's what she said.

2. I didn't read anything else in here yet.

George Carlin is gone but we've still got BBAM.

 

[Batman]

"It shouldn't be this hard."

1. That's what she said.

2. I didn't read anything else in here yet.

I was thinking maybe Alley was having an unfortunate experience with Viagra.

 

[Buck]

there is no 'should.' Things are what they are. 'Should' means purpose and design, which existence lacks.
One should always put oneself in a larger historical context.
My parents grew up during the Depression, so I've had a lot more advantages than they ever did. They were also much more frugal during their early adulthood than I ever was.
Gen-Xers are behind Boomers on scale of comfort, when compared age to age, but we're better off than a lot of other generations.
You could have been a 14th-century peasant.

 

[ArnoldBabar]

there is no 'should.' Things are what they are. 'Should' means purpose and design, which existence lacks.
One should always put oneself in a larger historical context.
My parents grew up during the Depression, so I've had a lot more advantages than they ever did. They were also much more frugal during their early adulthood than I ever was.
Gen-Xers are behind Boomers on scale of comfort, when compared age to age, but we're better off than a lot of other generations.
You could have been a 14th-century peasant.

I think about that all the time. What are the odds of me being born a white male, to a solid middle-class family, during peacetime (in my military-eligible years), in the most prosperous nation on the planet? Really, no major obstacles of any kind.

I could have been anybody, anywhere, at any time. I look at the starving children in the Sudan and think, there's absolutely no reason I couldn't have been born as that person in that situation. It kind of blows your mind to think about.

 

[ink-stained wretch]

Struggle is part of life. Once you accept that, it will get easier.

And where does it say that life is fair?

 

[alleyallen]

Struggle is part of life. Once you accept that, it will get easier.

And where does it say that life is fair?

Never indicated that I thought it was a gimme that life was going to be fair. But America has always been touted as a place where a hard-working, good person has a better chance of succeeding and making a better life for their child than they themselves had.

 

[buckweaver]

Struggle is part of life. Once you accept that, it will get easier.

And where does it say that life is fair?

Never indicated that I thought it was a gimme that life was going to be fair. But America has always been touted as a place where a hard-working, good person has a better chance of succeeding and making a better life for their child than they themselves had.

Thing is, the "American dream" isn't any less realistic today than it was 50 years ago. Oh, we like to think so -- sure. And in some ways, our parents' lives were easier than our grandparents' lives. And our lives are easier than our parents'. In other ways, life is more difficult -- certainly, more complicated.

But in terms of opportunities ... good, hard-working people didn't get ahead then any more than they do now. It's always been hard. It's never been fair.

And I think, in our frustration, we overlook just how hard they had it. And, in different ways, just how hard we have it, too. Not much has changed, regardless of our perceptions of what America was or is "touted" up to be. It's the same as it ever was.

 

[shockey]

great ep of "west wing." with eldest shockster off to college in late august. i feel much the same way this dad did. we've built a great life for our kids -- live in a great well-to-do town, great friends, have more income than my folks ever had -- and yet live paycheck-to-paycheck to pay the mortgage and all other bills.

college fund for the kids? zilch. i didn't have to take a single loan for college back in the day, attending a fine state university in new york. that's what my dad's most proud of, that my sister and i didn't have to take a single loan.

but a suny school in the mid-to-late '70s was maybe 3,000 bucks a year, tuition/dorm room. the shockster's going to the top suny school. cost today: 18 gs a year.

you're darn right he'll be in debt when he graduates. my father was amazed until i told him how much it is today. he couldn't believe it. we make three times what my folks ever did, but college will be six times more expensive. and our mortgage is astonomically bigger than the rent my parents paid on their apartment rental.

damn straight it shouldn't be this hard. what an effed up country, where mrs. shockey and i can make so much more than our parents ever did yet seem to struggle even more.

god bless america, indeed. ::) ::) ::)

 

[Buck]

If you were a homesteader, you might have scrimped and saved your way out of poverty to make your way West, whether it was a time when West was Kentucky or West was California.
If things worked out well, you had a life of backbreaking labor ahead of you and you only lost one child.
If things didn't go well, you lost everything during the journey and wound up with less than when you started.
Infant mortality rates were higher. Death during child birth was more common. Life expectancy was shorter.
America is supposed to be about opportunity not ease.

I understand your sentiments. I don't have a kid, but I've felt the same.
Just try to keep things in perspective. You could be raising your kid in Nigeria or Afghanistan.
And when things seem to be at their worst, blame the Baby Boomers. Anger is always more satisfying than discouragement.

 

[Moderator1]

I'm kind of the opposite of you Shockey. I paid the kids' college bills but I'm paying for it in other areas. That's OK. I got off easy. Their school was only 13 grand a year (but I had two a year for three years).

My daughter is on her own now, she just bought her first car and is very excited. I'm proud of her. She's never been afraid to work her ass off. I went to see her Saturday so she could show off her car and I can't even describe her pride. Wonderful to see.

 

[buckweaver]

great ep of "west wing." with eldest shockster off to college in late august. i feel much the same way this dad did. we've built a great life for our kids -- live in a great well-to-do town, great friends, have more income than my folks ever had -- and yet live paycheck-to-paycheck to pay the mortgage and all other bills.

college fund for the kids? zilch. i didn't have to take a single loan for college back in the day, attending a fine state university in new york. that's what my dad's most proud of, that my sister and i didn't have to take a single loan.

but a suny school in the mid-to-late '70s was maybe 3,000 bucks a year, tuition/dorm room. the shockster's going to the top suny school. cost today: 18 gs a year.

you're darn right he'll be in debt when he graduates. my father was amazed until i told him how much it is today. he couldn't believe it. we make three times what my folks ever did, but college will be six times more expensive. and our mortgage is astonomically bigger than the rent my parents paid on their apartment rental.

damn straight it shouldn't be this hard. what an effed up country, where mrs. shockey and i can make so much more than our parents ever did yet seem to struggle even more.

god bless america, indeed. ::) ::) ::)

Agree with every bit of this, shockey.

My parents struggled for a long time, did their very best just to make ends meet. I'm doing the same.

I didn't get a cent from them for college. Got a couple scholarships, the rest through student loans. I applaud any parents who try to pay for their kids' education, but I don't understand why either side -- the parent or the kid -- thinks that should be expected. Considering what college costs these days.

But if you really, really want to go to college -- you can get a loan and do it. Pick a small school that doesn't cost as much and apply for FAFSA. Nobody needs their parents' money to pay for school (even though it'll take years and years to pay it off.)

 

[ArnoldBabar]

My daughter is on her own now, she just bought her first car and is very excited. I'm proud of her. She's never been afraid to work her ass off. I went to see her Saturday so she could show off her car and I can't even describe her pride. Wonderful to see.

With my first on the way, my wife and I have talked a lot about what values are most important to instill. I believe that a strong work ethic will put a child so far ahead of other kids in this generation that it will make a huge difference.

I see so many kids that have never had to really work for anything, who find the concept of physical labor abhorrent. Kids hit the real world and expect things to be handed to them, then they hit stress and difficulty and don't have the tools to deal with it.

Do I want my kids to be wildly successful? Yes. But I also want them to have had the experience of working in ****ty restaurant jobs and painting houses during the summer. Because it will give them the ability to do what others around them aren't willing to do, and it will make them appreciate what they earn and accomplish.