In the NYT, Amy Winehouse > James Gandolfini

[LongTimeListener]

Its reach wasn't very big, though. The finale was watched by 11.9 million people, which at the time was an average to poor showing compared with a network show. That was the average weekly viewership number for Law & Order: SVU that season.

 

[JackReacher]

But in terms of the big cable shows these days, that's a solid viewership.

5.39 million watched the recent season finale of Game of Thrones.
2.98 million is the peak for Breaking Bad.
12.42 million for the recent season finale of The Walking Dead.

 

[dooley_womack1]

No way is he worth A1. Heck, Chase has a better shot down the line.

And ****, "Yes. Absolutely. No question. Without a doubt. Inarguable." is below your usual level of intellectual rigor. A few of us are a'doubtin'. Defend your view.

 

[LongTimeListener]

But in terms of the big cable shows these days, that's a solid viewership.

5.39 million watched the recent season finale of Game of Thrones.
2.98 million is the peak for Breaking Bad.
12.42 million for the recent season finale of The Walking Dead.

Oh I know. And for pay cable, it's astounding.

But as a cultural icon, he might be overstated by those "in the know."

 

[Dick Whitman]

No way is he worth A1. Heck, Chase has a better shot down the line.

And ****, "Yes. Absolutely. No question. Without a doubt. Inarguable." is below your usual level of intellectual rigor. A few of us are a'doubtin'. Defend your view.

The character he played was perhaps the most influential character in the history of television, spawning Don Draper, William White, and many others. The show he starred on - and the character and the show were almost indistinguishable - was equally influential, spawning shows with sweep like "Mad Men," "Breaking Bad," and "The Wire," and also network shows like "LOST" and "Heroes," which rode the formula. "The Sopranos" changed television - for one thing, it drew movie-goers like myself into dramatic television, which we had largely abandoned up until then. It also provided an alternative to what was at that point an onslaught of low-cost reality television. People forget, but there were a lot of obituaries being written for scripted television shows in the early 2000s, upon the arrival of "Survivor" and its antecedents.

Gandolfini was at the center of that revolution, as the actor who breathed life into one of the iconic television characters of all time. One of the iconic screen characters, really. One of the iconic characters, really. I understand the counter-argument: Tony Soprano didn't die. James Gandolfini did. But James Gandolfini was Tony Soprano. You can't really separate them. An apt comparison might be Lucille Ball or Carroll O'Connor. I've seen another one today: Marlon Brando. Just a few days ago, the New York Times had an A1 piece about how fashion magazines are putting television stars on their covers nowadays instead of movie stars. It's a seismic shift, and it's because television acting is now considered a respectable near-equivalent to screen acting.

And who do you think laid that foundation?

 

[JackReacher]

William White?

 

[dooley_womack1]

Can you say florid hyperbole? He is far from the most influential character in TV history. Let's see who's more influential....Archie Bunker, Maude, Bill Cosby's character in I Spy, Marlo Thomas' character in That Girl, Frank Furillo, Murphy Brown, Jody Dallas, Will Truman...and that's just with a couple moments thought. He was a very good actor who did well with a well-written character. And edgy cable series were being written before The Sopranos, so, again, florid hyperbole.

Look, it's a bummer he died, and Amy Winehouse sure didn't belong on the NYT's A1. But let's not go down the Olerud worm hole.

 

[LongTimeListener]

**** did just give a nice theme paper on Sepinwall's book, though.

 

[beanpole]

I agree, it got great play on the website, and that's where most people who want to know the NYT's take on Gandofini would look for it. I have no problem with the refer to the second-day story inside the paper.

 

[JackReacher]

If one of Bill Cosby's characters is on the "Most Influential" list, it's not his character in I Spy.

And who the hell are half of the others you listed?

 

[BTExpress]

The character he played was perhaps the most influential character in the history of television,

I stopped right there.

There really are places that people under the age of 30 just should not wander into. No matter how pseudo-educated.

You simply do not have the perspective.

 

[TheSportsPredictor]

No way is he worth A1. Heck, Chase has a better shot down the line.

And ****, "Yes. Absolutely. No question. Without a doubt. Inarguable." is below your usual level of intellectual rigor. A few of us are a'doubtin'. Defend your view.

The character he played was perhaps the most influential character in the history of television, spawning Don Draper, William White, and many others. The show he starred on - and the character and the show were almost indistinguishable - was equally influential, spawning shows with sweep like "Mad Men," "Breaking Bad," and "The Wire," and also network shows like "LOST" and "Heroes," which rode the formula. "The Sopranos" changed television - for one thing, it drew movie-goers like myself into dramatic television, which we had largely abandoned up until then. It also provided an alternative to what was at that point an onslaught of low-cost reality television. People forget, but there were a lot of obituaries being written for scripted television shows in the early 2000s, upon the arrival of "Survivor" and its antecedents.

Gandolfini was at the center of that revolution, as the actor who breathed life into one of the iconic television characters of all time. One of the iconic screen characters, really. One of the iconic characters, really. I understand the counter-argument: Tony Soprano didn't die. James Gandolfini did. But James Gandolfini was Tony Soprano. You can't really separate them. An apt comparison might be Lucille Ball or Carroll O'Connor. I've seen another one today: Marlon Brando. Just a few days ago, the New York Times had an A1 piece about how fashion magazines are putting television stars on their covers nowadays instead of movie stars. It's a seismic shift, and it's because television acting is now considered a respectable near-equivalent to screen acting.

And who do you think laid that foundation?

Tom Fontana and Oz.

 

[dooley_womack1]

If one of Bill Cosby's characters is on the "Most Influential" list, it's not his character in I Spy.

And who the hell are half of the others you listed?

Yes it is. He's the first black to carry a network TV series. Bill Cosby of the 1980s does not happen without Bill Cosby of the 1960s. As for the other, I wish there were some way for one to instantly look up historical information to answer any gaps in knowledge.

 

[JackReacher]

Oh, there is. I just don't give enough of a **** to do it. But I'm sure whoever Jody Dallas is/was, he/she is proud to be on your list.

 

[dooley_womack1]

OK, so you don't know about the first openly gay main character on U.S. network TV. Whatevs

 

[Versatile]

I watch a lot of TV. I've never seen an episode of The Sopranos. Everyone has heard Amy Winehouse's music. I've only seen James Gandolfini in a small handful of supporting roles: Get Shorty, Crimson Tide, All the King's Men and Money for Nothing.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Can you say florid hyperbole? He is far from the most influential character in TV history. Let's see who's more influential....Archie Bunker, Maude, Bill Cosby's character in I Spy, Marlo Thomas' character in That Girl, Frank Furillo, Murphy Brown, Jody Dallas, Will Truman...and that's just with a couple moments thought. He was a very good actor who did well with a well-written character. And edgy cable series were being written before The Sopranos, so, again, florid hyperbole.

Look, it's a bummer he died, and Amy Winehouse sure didn't belong on the NYT's A1. But let's not go down the Olerud worm hole.

Dooley, your list is almost exclusively sitcom characters. That says something right there about Tony Soprano, does it not? I think that for a long time, television was considered a good vehicle for comedy, but not so much for drama. Granted, "Oz" and some others came first, not least of all "Hill Street Blues." But Buddy Holly preceded the Beatles, right?

I stand by the assertion that he's arguably the most influential television character of all time. So many shows directly trace the lineage of their lead character to him. Billy Crystal and Bill Cosby's characters each had a breakthrough trait, I'll give you that. But Tony Soprano altered our understanding about what kind of canvas a show creator was working on when breathing life into his protagonist.

Now, don't get me wrong: I don't think "The Sopranos" was a perfect show. I think that it got a little plot heavy in later seasons, and I think that it did a poor job of introducing characters, and sometimes awkwardly ramped up the significance of peripheral characters.

But I do think that Tony Soprano was nearly a perfect character.

And played perfectly.

 

[Alma]

No way is he worth A1. Heck, Chase has a better shot down the line.

And ****, "Yes. Absolutely. No question. Without a doubt. Inarguable." is below your usual level of intellectual rigor. A few of us are a'doubtin'. Defend your view.

The character he played was perhaps the most influential character in the history of television, spawning Don Draper, William White, and many others. The show he starred on - and the character and the show were almost indistinguishable - was equally influential, spawning shows with sweep like "Mad Men," "Breaking Bad," and "The Wire," and also network shows like "LOST" and "Heroes," which rode the formula. "The Sopranos" changed television - for one thing, it drew movie-goers like myself into dramatic television, which we had largely abandoned up until then. It also provided an alternative to what was at that point an onslaught of low-cost reality television. People forget, but there were a lot of obituaries being written for scripted television shows in the early 2000s, upon the arrival of "Survivor" and its antecedents.

Gandolfini was at the center of that revolution, as the actor who breathed life into one of the iconic television characters of all time. One of the iconic screen characters, really. One of the iconic characters, really. I understand the counter-argument: Tony Soprano didn't die. James Gandolfini did. But James Gandolfini was Tony Soprano. You can't really separate them. An apt comparison might be Lucille Ball or Carroll O'Connor. I've seen another one today: Marlon Brando. Just a few days ago, the New York Times had an A1 piece about how fashion magazines are putting television stars on their covers nowadays instead of movie stars. It's a seismic shift, and it's because television acting is now considered a respectable near-equivalent to screen acting.

And who do you think laid that foundation?

Titanic influence isn't measured in five years, ****. The Sopranos has only been off TV since 2007.

Further, the presumption that it's best TV shows ever is a byproduct of the tyranny of now. TV critics who just started writing in the last decade just don't have the clout to declare that for themselves. Some of the "great" shows of today, as labeled by critics, are just nihilistic, upscale soap operas. Postmodernism and relativism reign today, so, through that prism, these shows look excellent. Some are (The Sopranos) and some most definitely are not.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Some of the "great" shows of today, as labeled by critics, are just nihilistic, upscale soap operas.

Any in particular you're thinking of? :)

 

[JackReacher]

OK, so you don't know about the first openly gay main character on U.S. network TV. Whatevs

That would seem to be the case.

Whatevs? Should I be ashamed? Is that a put-down?