How is this not an error?

[trench]

Tie game, men on 1st and 2nd, bottom 9th, 1 out.
Deep flyout to the warning track in right field for the second out. Defense concedes the tag up from 2nd to 3rd, and the cut-off man (as he should) positions himself between second base and the right fielder to take the relay and prevent a tag-up from 1st to 2nd. Right fielder fires a throw in the direction of home plate, well beyond the reach of the cut-off man. Ball rolls into the infield. Meanwhile, the runner tagging up from second is waved home. First baseman scoops it up and fires home, too late. Run scores. Game over. Official boxscore: Sac fly, RBI. Huh??? E9 all the way, right?

 

[FreddiePatek]

Friendly scorekeeper wanted the hometown boy to get a ribbie

 

[HandsomeHarley]

That's got to be an error all the way.

No SF.

 

[trench]

That's what I thought too. The second-hand explanation we got was that the throw wasn't intended for the cut-off man, but was actually an accurate throw to the plate (albeit one that was rolling by the time it reached clay). Of course, that's the wrong base to throw it to, but OFs throw to the wrong base all the time and don't always get charged with an error.

 

[Pete Incaviglia]

At VERY least, there is NO RBI and NO sac fly on the play. The runner advanced to home on the throw, not the batted ball.

 

[FreddiePatek]

At VERY least, there is NO RBI and NO sac fly on the play. The runner advanced to home on the throw, not the batted ball.

Pete Incaviglia, of course, would know a little sumpin-sumpin' about missing the cutoff man. ;D

 

[Angola!]

If it was a deep enough fly out and the guy tagged up from second and never stopped running, could it be a sac fly?

 

[Pete Incaviglia]

If it was a deep enough fly out and the guy tagged up from second and never stopped running, could it be a sac fly?

I suppose, but I've never heard of it. Although, the official rules of baseball don't specifically state that a runner can only score from third on a sac fly:

10.09
e) Score a sacrifice fly when, before two are out, the batter hits a fly ball or a line drive handled by an outfielder or an infielder running in the outfield which

(1) is caught, and a runner scores after the catch

I just think you'd have to be a damn generous scorer to give an RBI on the above described play.

 

[Angola!]

If it was a deep enough fly out and the guy tagged up from second and never stopped running, could it be a sac fly?

I suppose, but I've never heard of it.

I thought I'd heard of it in a MLB game before, but I could just be remembering a drunken game of Baseball Stars.

 

[HandsomeHarley]

You have to account for every base.

Therefore, it has to either be a two-base SF or an error. And there's no way it's a two-base SF unless the runner was running the entire way, without hesitation. As soon as he hesitates or pulls up, it becomes a throwing error.

 

[deskslave]

I would think that would be scored as the runner advancing to third on the fly ball, then home on the error. It's not a two-base error, right? Not that it matters much in the grand scheme of things.

As for scoring from second on a fly ball, I see no reason why that wouldn't be possible, at least in theory. It would be exceedingly difficult , but not impossible.

 

[Pete Incaviglia]

I'm not sure it's an error though. The right fielder CHOSE to throw home rather than to the cutoff man.

 

[apeman33]

I'm not sure it's an error though. The right fielder CHOSE to throw home rather than to the cutoff man.

But if said throw is inaccurate or otherwise creates an outcome that should not have happened, it's an error. The right fielder's error was not hitting the cutoff man. His intent is not the issue; it's the outcome.

 

[zebracoy]

No sac fly, no RBI and no error.

It's not a sac fly because two bases were gained after the error. That's the same reason for no RBI.

If the throw had been on the mark but the runner beat the catcher making the tag, that's not an error. If the throw had been a little to the left or right, as most throws from right field on such a play are, and the runner is safe, that's not an error. If the throw comes up short and the runner is safe, that's also not an error. A poor throw, sure - is Johnny Damon in right field? - but certainly no error.

 

[Ace]

If it's a tie game, bottom of the ninth and two outs, what do you care of the runner from first goes to second or not?

 

[Pete Incaviglia]

No sac fly, no RBI and no error.

It's not a sac fly because two bases were gained after the error. That's the same reason for no RBI.

If the throw had been on the mark but the runner beat the catcher making the tag, that's not an error. If the throw had been a little to the left or right, as most throws from right field on such a play are, and the runner is safe, that's not an error. If the throw comes up short and the runner is safe, that's also not an error. A poor throw, sure - is Johnny Damon in right field? - but certainly no error.

Exactly. You can't charge an error for trying to throw to home plate and the throw not making it.

 

[jfs1000]

At VERY least, there is NO RBI and NO sac fly on the play. The runner advanced to home on the throw, not the batted ball.

Not an error, but I find it difficult to give a SF. He overthrew the cutoff man? I don't think it is a physical error. Maybe a mental one. I could see both sides, but overthrowing the cutoff man isn't an error. If he threw it in the stands, it's an error. But, there is no expectation that hitting the cutoff man is a routine play. If the ball was going towards home plate, then it may very well be a sacrifice fly.


Edit: I remember the Yankees had Andy Fox tag up from second in a game about 10 years ago. Yanks were down 9-1 or something like that and that started the rally where they eventually won. Guy caught the ball in deep right center and dove after the catch. His back was to the field on the dive and he had no chance getting Fox.

 

[HandsomeHarley]

No sac fly, no RBI and no error.

It's not a sac fly because two bases were gained after the error. That's the same reason for no RBI.

If the throw had been on the mark but the runner beat the catcher making the tag, that's not an error. If the throw had been a little to the left or right, as most throws from right field on such a play are, and the runner is safe, that's not an error. If the throw comes up short and the runner is safe, that's also not an error. A poor throw, sure - is Johnny Damon in right field? - but certainly no error.

Don't say, "no error," then say two bases were gained after the error.

It is a one-base error all the way. It doesn't matter what the intent was. A bad throw led to a runner taking an extra base, whereas a good throw would have held him. That is an error.

 

[Tom Petty]

would the runner have scored had the douchebag hit the cutoff man?

 

[TwoGloves]

Had something similar happen years ago. Scorekeeper didn't want to give a kid an error he deserved. Said he was trying to be nice to the kid. The director of the baseball association happened to be there and asked if that was fair to the pitcher, who got charged with an earned run when he shouldn't have. Scorekeeper looked at him like the proverbial deer staring into headlights. No answer.