How do you spell stagflation?

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W hearkens back to an earlier administration and has an idea:


NIM.jpg


"Well, yes, Mr. President, we do have a warehouse room full of these in northern Virginia. but, it's stagflation, not inflation, we're battling."
 
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Captain_Kirk said:
W hearkens back to an earlier administration and has an idea:


NIM.jpg


"Well, yes, Mr. President, we do have a warehouse room full of these in northern Virginia. but, it's stagflation, not inflation, we're battling."

The Secret of Nim is one of my favorite movies. Those mice are freakin' brilliant.
 
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Paul Volcker recommends interest-rate shock to kill the stagflation beast.
 
Bob Cook said:
Paul Volcker recommends interest-rate shock to kill the stagflation beast.

Beat me to it, Bob.

Those of you in SportsJournalists.com Nation old enough to remember those WIN buttons and the frightening late 70s and early 80s will remember that when Volcker took over as Fed Chair, he pushed interest rates into the ionosphere -- around 20% -- to squash inflation.

It did that... along with throwing this country into one of the deepest recessions since the Great Depression.

Not saying it's a good thing, because having remembered those times, it was frightening stuff. I remember explaining that to Little Birdscribe when we watched "Miracle" -- that this was going on in the middle of a perfect economic storm and some really scary times that younger people can't relate to.

But one thing's clear. Ben Bernanke may be the best appointee Dubya made in his reign of error. For our sake, he better be.
 
But one thing's clear. Ben Bernanke may be the best appointee Dubya made in his reign of error. For our sake, he better be.

Eeesh. You're kidding, right?

The guy who has made saving money for the average american a losing proposition (bank savings rate of return - taxes <inflation) and killing the dollar, all for the benefit of financial institutions, is the *best* GW has picked?

On second thought, he just may be....
 
One thing, however, is clear here. Bernanke and Co. may be better off leaving interest rates alone. They've cut them by 3% since September and it typically takes 9 months for those cuts to work their way through the economy.

Raising them in a time when oil just hit $137 a barrel and the jobs report was depressing (5.5% unemployment, nearly 50k jobs gone in May) would wreak financial havoc in the short term. And in an election year, Bernanke won't go there.

One interesting response I heard this morning on CNBC came from Rep. Barney Frank, who suggested a second economic stimulus check. When skeptical, free-market uber alles, eye-candy anchor Trish Regan asked him where the money would come from, Frank didn't miss a beat, saying on Sept. 10, 2001, we didn't have any money, but all of a sudden, found hundreds of billions to invade Iraq.

So taking some from that would hardly be missed.

Even Larry Kudlow, who is the standard-bearer for free-market, low-regulation, low-tax economics, didn't completely rip Frank's idea, save for Frank's suggestion that a raise in taxes on upper-income folks would help pay for it.
 
poindexter said:
But one thing's clear. Ben Bernanke may be the best appointee Dubya made in his reign of error. For our sake, he better be.

Eeesh. You're kidding, right?

The guy who has made saving money for the average american a losing proposition (bank savings rate of return - taxes <inflation) and killing the dollar, all for the benefit of financial institutions, is the *best* GW has picked?

On second thought, he just may be....

I think he is the best appointee in Bush's reign of error, Poin. And I'm a Democrat.

He had to cut interest rates in the wake of a credit crisis that is the worst thing to happen to the economy in 70 years. Had to. The only complaint is that he didn't do it soon enough.

Not to do that would be equivalent to Hoover refusing to provide economic stimulus during the early days of the Depression.

You know and I know that financial institutions are going to benefit from whatever's done. As we saw when the govt. bailed out Chrysler 30 years ago and bailed out hedge fund Long Term Capital Management 10 years ago, some institutions can't be allowed to fail because of the ramifications of such failure.

The fall of the dollar? An unfortunate byproduct, one accelerated by the manic raise in oil prices.
 
Is it in the government's power to suspend oil trading on the commodities market? Just asking.
 
Starman said:
The Big Ragu said:
FirstDownPirates said:
Is this a trick question?

Only to the Bush presidency... This is going to be the cherry on top for him. It's not entirely his fault, just as it wasn't entirely Jimmy Carter's fault. But when you're the president and everything falls apart economically at once, you don't get remembered very kindly. Bush isn't going to shoulder it entirely. I don't envy Obama or McCain, if they get elected. They are walking into a mess and whatever they try to do--other than ride it out and stand aside and watch people suffer--they are going to create more of a problem. It's what Carter found out when he did just about everything wrong. If you try to create economic growth, you pour gasoline on the inflation problem. If you try to address to inflation, you cripple the economy even more. There is nothing you can do. I don't have an absolute crystal ball, but I will bet that whoever gets elected president next has a very rough presidency and leaves with some major scars.

Oh, and Ace, I only brag about how well hung I am... Who really cares all that much about spelling?

Bush has been in the saddle eight years. It's on him. ****ing incompetent moron.
If you want to be that simplistic, I can play that game, too.

Everything was grand with the economy when it was Bush in the White House and the GOP in charge of the House and Senate.

What change in government has coincided with the downturn in the economy?

Anyone? Anyone?
 
Bush ultimately signs the appropriations bills.

poindexter, what's your fix for the cancer patient here? The Bush Administration's manta -- When In Doubt, Do Nothing.
 
Strongly disagree, birdscribe. They can be allowed to fail. The reasons we keep having these monumental ****ups is because executives (who make billions in bonuses) feel invincible because Daddy government will bail them out. **** that. I didn't sign up for that.

Let the people who get into these messes extricate themselves. If the system blows up, start again. What on earth is so good about our financial system that the taxpayer should continually bail it out?

The Barney Frank comment is so ridiculous, but par for the course. The answer obviously, is our children and their children will be the one burdened with the bills for all this spending we do now. It's patently unfair to them, but the way this country runs. Sweep it all under the rug, let the next generation worry about it. Nobody is ever responsible for their own messes. Leave it for the next generation.

I hit my three post argument limit, so I am out.
 
Bob Cook said:
Paul Volcker recommends interest-rate shock to kill the stagflation beast.

It might stop the inflation trend, but gawd almighty, what would it do to the already-sick-as-hell real estate markets?

We're already in the midst of a housing crash and foreclosure epidemic, throw in interest rate shocks and the housing industry might just COMPLETELY shut down for a couple years. That idea ought to scare the hell out of every homeowner.
 
old_tony said:
Starman said:
The Big Ragu said:
FirstDownPirates said:
Is this a trick question?

Only to the Bush presidency... This is going to be the cherry on top for him. It's not entirely his fault, just as it wasn't entirely Jimmy Carter's fault. But when you're the president and everything falls apart economically at once, you don't get remembered very kindly. Bush isn't going to shoulder it entirely. I don't envy Obama or McCain, if they get elected. They are walking into a mess and whatever they try to do--other than ride it out and stand aside and watch people suffer--they are going to create more of a problem. It's what Carter found out when he did just about everything wrong. If you try to create economic growth, you pour gasoline on the inflation problem. If you try to address to inflation, you cripple the economy even more. There is nothing you can do. I don't have an absolute crystal ball, but I will bet that whoever gets elected president next has a very rough presidency and leaves with some major scars.

Oh, and Ace, I only brag about how well hung I am... Who really cares all that much about spelling?

Bush has been in the saddle eight years. It's on him. ****ing incompetent moron.
If you want to be that simplistic, I can play that game, too.

Everything was grand with the economy when it was Bush in the White House and the GOP in charge of the House and Senate.

What change in government has coincided with the downturn in the economy?

Anyone? Anyone?
Bush's "robust jobs numbers" early in his term were all of the $7/hr variety.

We sane Americans roasted you wing nuts on this issue as an omen betokening a crash.

Like going to see Fahrenheit 9/11, you jokers wanted to hear nothing of it.

I swear.... you all deserve a throttling.
 
Lee Jackson Beauregard said:
dixiehack said:
Lee Jackson Beauregard said:
Wage-fixing, price-fixing, excise and sales (indirect) taxes, labor taxes, deterministic taxation -- all the things we're not doing.

Promise me you aren't in charge of anything actually important.

I sell balloons on the corner.

How's Jesus doing these days. He still want to go to Venus?
 
poindexter said:
Strongly disagree, birdscribe. They can be allowed to fail. The reasons we keep having these monumental ****ups is because executives (who make billions in bonuses) feel invincible because Daddy government will bail them out. **** that. I didn't sign up for that.

Let the people who get into these messes extricate themselves. If the system blows up, start again. What on earth is so good about our financial system that the taxpayer should continually bail it out?

The Barney Frank comment is so ridiculous, but par for the course. The answer obviously, is our children and their children will be the one burdened with the bills for all this spending we do now. It's patently unfair to them, but the way this country runs. Sweep it all under the rug, let the next generation worry about it. Nobody is ever responsible for their own messes. Leave it for the next generation.

I hit my three post argument limit, so I am out.

Poin, I know you're out of this, but let me get this in:

I don't disagree with your too-large-to-fail argument, especially when it's thrown out there by free-marketeers who don't want to touch the economy. Actually, you and I are on the same page there. I pointed that out to make a point that is irrefutable: that some entities won't be allowed to fail.

I ripped the Clinton Adminstration for bailing out LTCM then and I'll rip them now. The government has no biz bailing out a hedge fund.
 
old_tony said:
Everything was grand with the economy when it was Bush in the White House and the GOP in charge of the House and Senate.

What change in government has coincided with the downturn in the economy?

Anyone? Anyone?

The Dems did not assume control of Congress until January, 2007. The "downturn in the economy" began well before that. As did the dickbrained policies that caused it.
 
Everything was grand with the economy when it was Bush in the White House and the GOP in charge of the House and Senate.

Six years of a stagnant stock market.

Gasoline prices that had more than doubled from 2001 to 2006.

Miniscule growth in low-paying jobs.

Average household income (adjusted for inflation) LOWER by about $3,000 from 2001 to 2006.

Care to rethink that post? Or will a simple "delete" suffice?
 
Birdscribe said:
One interesting response I heard this morning on CNBC came from Rep. Barney Frank, who suggested a second economic stimulus check. When skeptical, free-market uber alles, eye-candy anchor Trish Regan asked him where the money would come from, Frank didn't miss a beat, saying on Sept. 10, 2001, we didn't have any money, but all of a sudden, found hundreds of billions to invade Iraq.

So taking some from that would hardly be missed.

Even Larry Kudlow, who is the standard-bearer for free-market, low-regulation, low-tax economics, didn't completely rip Frank's idea, save for Frank's suggestion that a raise in taxes on upper-income folks would help pay for it.

Oh lord no, Bird. Barney Frank is a moron. First off, the money we have spent since 9/11 is money we don't have. Spending more money we don't have isn't a solution. It will just exacerbate the misery by making prices rise even more. If you try to fuel the economy, you are pouring gas on the inflation problem.

What Frank is suggesting is akin to Paul Volcker's supply shock, which you know made things worse. It's just trying to control the economy instead of controlling inflation, the way Volcker was. The problem is, when you try to control one, you make the other worse. This is the inherent dilemma with stagflation.

You can't manage the economy, period. Monetary policy has short-term effects. Even Keynsians agree with this. The economy is like a giant battleship. You can maybe steer it a little (although I will argue to the death that you do it by creating problems as bad, or worse, as the ones you are trying to fix). But trying to slam on the brakes and reverse course makes it capsize.

These are smart men, Ben Bernanke included, but all the smarts in the world can't give them the power to do the impossible.

Bernanke modeled something when he was at the Brookings Institute that correlated every major U.S. recession since Nixon with a combo of oil price increases and the Fed raising the Fed funds rate. It wasn't genius. It just provided more proof of something most people could see.

It is exactly what happened again while he was Fed chairman. They were raising rates for a few years to try to manage the economy and oil prices started to rise precipitously in 2007. The economy slowed, helped along in part by the housing bust, and we are now starting to get hit with the dual whammy of a recession and inflation.

Bernanke hasn't performed very well so far (but no Fed chairman ever really does, because it's their job to screw around with things they can't control). Based on the work he had done at Brookings, for some godforsaken reason he actually thinks that by lowering rates, as he has done, he could stave off the recession. What he has likely done, though, is spurred on more demand, which is probably one of the more significant factors that is driving oil prices to an all-time high.

It's the stupid short-term fixes that create much worse long-term problems. So now an inevitable recession is probably going to be a very severe recession. And trying to heat up an anchored economy, as he has done, just makes the inflation worse, too. Is it worth a half year of slight relief that creates two years of worse misery?

The best way out is to do nothing. Barney Frank--and just about every politician--won't do that. It's their job to pretend they can dribble a football. And neither will the Fed chairman, because he'll get hammered for sitting tight, even though he knows it's the right thing to do.
 
Simon_Cowbell said:
old_tony said:
Starman said:
The Big Ragu said:
FirstDownPirates said:
Is this a trick question?

Only to the Bush presidency... This is going to be the cherry on top for him. It's not entirely his fault, just as it wasn't entirely Jimmy Carter's fault. But when you're the president and everything falls apart economically at once, you don't get remembered very kindly. Bush isn't going to shoulder it entirely. I don't envy Obama or McCain, if they get elected. They are walking into a mess and whatever they try to do--other than ride it out and stand aside and watch people suffer--they are going to create more of a problem. It's what Carter found out when he did just about everything wrong. If you try to create economic growth, you pour gasoline on the inflation problem. If you try to address to inflation, you cripple the economy even more. There is nothing you can do. I don't have an absolute crystal ball, but I will bet that whoever gets elected president next has a very rough presidency and leaves with some major scars.

Oh, and Ace, I only brag about how well hung I am... Who really cares all that much about spelling?

Bush has been in the saddle eight years. It's on him. ****ing incompetent moron.
If you want to be that simplistic, I can play that game, too.

Everything was grand with the economy when it was Bush in the White House and the GOP in charge of the House and Senate.

What change in government has coincided with the downturn in the economy?

Anyone? Anyone?
Bush's "robust jobs numbers" early in his term were all of the $7/hr variety.

We sane Americans roasted you wing nuts on this issue as an omen betokening a crash.

Like going to see Fahrenheit 9/11, you jokers wanted to hear nothing of it.

I swear.... you all deserve a throttling.
The economy does not roar as it did from 2003-'07 on "$7/hr" jobs. You know it, I know it, the American people know it.

But you keep reading from the DNC talking points.
 

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