Hibachi this, Dukies!

[Fenian_Bastard]

OK, Ellis, so based on your logic, Larry Brown and John Thompson are also total idiots because they didn't bring home gold medals.

We can hammer the personal shortcomings of each until we're blue in the face, but there's not much denying each's ability to coach and lead teams.

Sam -- You're pole-vaulting into fanboy land.
And this story is just funny. We gotta lighten up here.

 

[Starman]

OK, Ellis, so based on your logic, Larry Brown and John Thompson are also total idiots because they didn't bring home gold medals.

Larry Brown and John Thompson are indeed total idiots, because they are more fixated on forcing teams to (in their opinion) "play the right way" than they are on actually winning games.

They're the ultimate devotees of the Norman Dale philosophy: "At the end of the game I don't care what the scoreboard says, in my book you'll be winners."

What the scoreboard says is what counts.

You do know that Larry Brown is the only coach EVER to have a NC and an NBA Finals ring.

NCAA title won with an ineligble pro player. NBA title won when the other team spectacularly self-immolated.

Over-Rated.

And Thompson should have won about 4, not 1, NCAA titles in the 1980s, with the talent he had on his rosters, but his sludge-ball strategies succeeded in keeping games close enough for him to lose to amazingly inferior opponents.

 

[heyabbott]

OK, Ellis, so based on your logic, Larry Brown and John Thompson are also total idiots because they didn't bring home gold medals.

Larry Brown and John Thompson are indeed total idiots, because they are more fixated on forcing teams to (in their opinion) "play the right way" than they are on actually winning games.

They're the ultimate devotees of the Norman Dale philosophy: "At the end of the game I don't care what the scoreboard says, in my book you'll be winners."

What the scoreboard says is what counts.

You do know that Larry Brown is the only coach EVER to have a NC and an NBA Finals ring.

Thompson and Brown aren't idiots, their megalomaniacs, control freak with delusions of infalibility and vastly over rated. Given the talent they were able to surround themselves with, you could argue they underachieved. For all Thompson's bravora, if it weren't for Michael Graham, a barely literate thug, he never would have won his single Champioship.

 

[beefncheddar]

Larry Brown's had 1,500 different jobs. He's BOUND to have stumbled into a championship-caliber club or two along the way.

 

[Chuck~Taylor]

Larry Brown's had 1,500 different jobs. He's BOUND to have stumbled into a championship-caliber club or two along the way.

Not saying he's not a control freak. But he's resurrected many teams during his career.
And starman, I wouldn't know much about the NCAA championship he won because I wasn't alive at the time but the reason the Pistons won was because they were the better team. The teamwork idea worked and that's why they won.

 

[heyabbott]

Larry Brown's had 1,500 different jobs. He's BOUND to have stumbled into a championship-caliber club or two along the way.

Not saying he's not a control freak. But he's resurrected many teams during his career.
And starman, I wouldn't know much about the NCAA championship he won because I wasn't alive at the time but the reason the Pistons won was because they were the better team. The teamwork idea worked and that's why they won.

Brown didn't invent team work or improve on it. If you have a very good team without excellent players you can sell them on the idea of team work, especially if they are winning already.

Larry Brown couldn't carry Red Holtzman's socks.

 

[Chuck~Taylor]

Larry Brown's had 1,500 different jobs. He's BOUND to have stumbled into a championship-caliber club or two along the way.

Not saying he's not a control freak. But he's resurrected many teams during his career.
And starman, I wouldn't know much about the NCAA championship he won because I wasn't alive at the time but the reason the Pistons won was because they were the better team. The teamwork idea worked and that's why they won.

Brown didn't invent team work or improve on it. If you have a very good team without excellent players you can sell them on the idea of team work, especially if they are winning already.

Larry Brown couldn't carry Red Holtzman's socks.

True ,but when was the last time we saw a team like the Pistons? You just don't see that in modern day basketball. He didn't invent teamwork, but he brought it back from the dead.

 

[Starman]

True ,but when was the last time we saw a team like the Pistons? You just don't see that in modern day basketball. He didn't invent teamwork, but he brought it back from the dead.

Those Spurs championships teams worked pretty well together. Just sayin'.

Uh, yeah. And those loosey-goosey, run-and-gun Phoenix Suns are playing pretty good team ball too. Unfortunately, they're scoring 110, not 75, points per game, so they can't be "Playing The Right Way." ::) ::)

 

[Chuck~Taylor]

True ,but when was the last time we saw a team like the Pistons? You just don't see that in modern day basketball. He didn't invent teamwork, but he brought it back from the dead.

Those Spurs championships teams worked pretty well together. Just sayin'.

Yeah, but that was more Tim Duncan's team. When they won the championship, everyone knew that the Finals MVP was going to be Duncan. You could've made an argument for 4 players when the Pistons won it.

EDIT: And Starman, the Suns weren't doing this before the Pistons won the championship. Steve Nash wasn't even on the Suns during that year.

 

[GB-Hack]

True ,but when was the last time we saw a team like the Pistons? You just don't see that in modern day basketball. He didn't invent teamwork, but he brought it back from the dead.

Those Spurs championships teams worked pretty well together. Just sayin'.

Yeah, but that was more Tim Duncan's team. When they won the championship, everyone knew that the Finals MVP was going to be Duncan. You could've made an argument for 4 players when the Pistons won it.

EDIT: And Starman, the Suns weren't doing this before the Pistons won the championship. Steve Nash wasn't even on the Suns during that year.

Well you could throw in the Mavericks of that season with Nash, Nowitski et al.

 

[Starman]

True ,but when was the last time we saw a team like the Pistons? You just don't see that in modern day basketball. He didn't invent teamwork, but he brought it back from the dead.

Those Spurs championships teams worked pretty well together. Just sayin'.

Yeah, but that was more Tim Duncan's team. When they won the championship, everyone knew that the Finals MVP was going to be Duncan. You could've made an argument for 4 players when the Pistons won it.

The objective of basketball is to Win Games. If the best way for your team to win games is for Tim Duncan (or Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan or Wilt Chamberlain) to handle the ball on 80% of your offensive plays, then that's what you should do.

If the talent on your team dictates that you should have 4 guys averaging 15 ppg, then do that.

What else was Brown gonna do with the Pistons? Tell them he wanted Rip Hamilton to go out and average 35 ppg?

 

[Chuck~Taylor]

True ,but when was the last time we saw a team like the Pistons? You just don't see that in modern day basketball. He didn't invent teamwork, but he brought it back from the dead.

Those Spurs championships teams worked pretty well together. Just sayin'.

Yeah, but that was more Tim Duncan's team. When they won the championship, everyone knew that the Finals MVP was going to be Duncan. You could've made an argument for 4 players when the Pistons won it.

EDIT: And Starman, the Suns weren't doing this before the Pistons won the championship. Steve Nash wasn't even on the Suns during that year.

Well you could throw in the Mavericks of that season with Nash, Nowitski et al.

Yeah but that really wasn't teamwork. It was Nowitzki takin' most of the shots and Nash playing second fiddle.
And Starman, I get what you mean. That's why I said he was a control freak. But the guy won basketball games and that's all that matters.

 

[Chuck~Taylor]

Yeah, but that was more Tim Duncan's team. When they won the championship, everyone knew that the Finals MVP was going to be Duncan. You could've made an argument for 4 players when the Pistons won it.

That '99 Spurs team sure wasn't. Robinson averaged a double-double that season, Avery Johnson wasn't exactly a forgotten man. Sean Elliott, Mario Elie, Steve Kerr. Malik Rose was a pretty good contributor in limited minutes.

Team-ball isn't exclusive to Larry Brown, that's for damn sure.

True, but it still wasn't like the Piston's team. This is what you put:
Best Player
2nd best player
Role player,role player,role player etc.

It wasn't like(and still isn't) that for the Pistons.

 

[Chuck~Taylor]

True, but it still wasn't like the Piston's team. This is what you put:
Best Player
2nd best player
Role player,role player,role player etc.

It wasn't like(and still isn't) that for the Pistons.

And like Starman said, what choice do they have? They don't HAVE a player like Tim Duncan or Kobe Bryant or AI or Dirk. If they did, do you think they'd spread the ball around instead of getting it to their playmaker? Not a ****ing chance.

You give the ball to the guy that can score. The Pistons don't have a player like that.

They play team ball because it fits their personnel. If it didn't, they wouldn't. When Larry Brown crashes and burns, it's because he tries to fit HIS square-peg system around round-hole personnel. The Pistons have that square-peg personnel, and that's why it worked for Brown.

Exactly. The played teamwork and great defense. But you gotta' give SOME credit to Larry Brown.

 

[Chuck~Taylor]

Sure. But his system only thrives with the right players.

A better coach can adapt his system around his players just as well as he can fit his players around his system. Brown can't do that.

But he has transformed bad teams to playoff teams many times in his career. You could say his coaching is flawed, but his record speaks for itself. 1,285-853

 

[PhilaYank36]

Not to re-thread-jack this thread, but who beat out Arenas for the final spot on Team USA?

 

[heyabbott]

Not to re-thread-jack this thread, but who beat out Arenas for the final spot on Team USA?

Mike Gminski, Jim Spanarkle, Gene Banks, Mark Alarie, Tommy Amaker, Danny Ferry & Johnny Dawkins

 

[Sam Mills 51]

OK, Ellis, so based on your logic, Larry Brown and John Thompson are also total idiots because they didn't bring home gold medals.

We can hammer the personal shortcomings of each until we're blue in the face, but there's not much denying each's ability to coach and lead teams.

Sam -- You're pole-vaulting into fanboy land.
And this story is just funny. We gotta lighten up here.

I'm no fan of Larry Brown. Take away the race card and John Thompson wasn't all bad.

Mike Krzyzewski actually got NBA players who wanted to play together. They didn't leave in the same discord that Brown's disaster did. He didn't win the gold medal, but the time has long passed that we're not the undisputed rulers of the basketball world. We've got thousands of youngsters trying to be the next Michael Jordan, trying to make SportsCenter. Meanwhile, many of the European powers are actually teaching kids fundamentals - like jump shots, ballhandling and passing. Amazing.

Gilbert Arenas wasn't funny at all. He was absolutely foolish. I'm laughing at him, not with him.

 

[Oz]

Not to re-thread-jack this thread, but who beat out Arenas for the final spot on Team USA?

Carmelo, I believe. Don't hold me to it, though, I would have to Google it to be sure.

 

[heyabbott]

Not to re-thread-jack this thread, but who beat out Arenas for the final spot on Team USA?

Carmelo, I believe. Don't hold me to it, though, I would have to Google it to be sure.

It was either Joe Johnson, Chris Paul or Kirk Hinrich. Carmelo wasn't the last man selected