GOAT, QB Category

[Dick Whitman]

Simple question, really:

Does a Super Bowl victory by either Peyton Manning or Tom Brady over the next three weeks clinch either's claim to the mantel?

Does one of them already own it?

Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?

 

[MisterCreosote]

Still Joe Montana.

Unless Manning turns in three flawless Super Bowl performances before he retires, or Brady goes back in time and uncheats.

 

[TigerVols]

With another SB win, PFM movies closer to Montana, but Montana is still the greatest.

 

[Boom_70]

Montana

 

[heyabbott]

Brady has the best winning percentage in games played (3-2 in Super Bowls), Manning has the most wins and lots of records, Montana is 4-0 in Super Bowls. Bart Starr is 9-1 in the playoffs (losing only his first post season game then going 9-0), 5 Championships.

Its not quantifiable for GOAT

 

[Captain_Kirk]

I'd vote for Montana, but I agree with heyabbott's point.

 

[MisterCreosote]

Montana in Super Bowls: 4-0, 68% completion, 11 TDs, 0 INTs, 1,142 yards, 127.8 rating, three Super Bowl MVPs.

That's pretty darn quantifiable.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Yeah, I agree it's still Montana. It's hard to argue with a 4-0 record in the Super Bowl, especially the way he won...

If someone said it was Manning, I wouldn't argue. I think he's clearly a better QB than Tom Brady. Manning never played for someone like Belichick, even if he did play for a soon to be first-ballot HOF coach (eyes roll).

Baugh, Graham and Starr have to be in the conversation. All-time does not just mean "Super Bowl Era" even though sometimes I think people forget that football was played before Super Bowl I.

It is hard to compare a QB from the 60s to one in the 1980s and to now...

I'm just so sick of the notion that Manning only winning one title ruins his legacy. Everybody can't win multiple titles... In this era of the NFL with this much parity, there are going to be upsets.

 

[Chef2]

Who is the Greatest Quarterback of All Time?

otto

No.

Montana.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

The best I ever saw were Unitas, Montana, Manning and Brady. Put 'em in any order you want, it's like saying champagne is better than caviar or a Ferrari. Not a worthwhile argument. I was too young to see Graham, and my father, who passed away age 93 but grew up in D.C., always swore Baugh was the best of them all. Baugh's got a case, but I can comment on is what I saw.

 

[MisterCreosote]

I'm just so sick of the notion that Manning only winning one title ruins his legacy.

It's not just that he's only won one title.

He still has lost more playoff games than he's won. And, his play has been a factor in some of those losses.

He's very noticeably worse in the postseason than he is in the regular season. His QB rating is almost a full 10 points lower in the playoffs.

That being said, while he's no higher than No. 2 on the all-time list, he's certainly no lower than fourth or fifth.

 

[printit]

I don't understand the argument that, "Montana is 4-0 in the Super Bowl, therefore he is the best". If David Tyree drops the pass from Eli Manning, Tom Brady goes to 4-0 in the Super Bowl. Brady isn't as good as Montana because David Tyree caught that pass? And, when Brady goes to his fifth Super Bowl and loses close, bringing his total to 4-1, that makes him worse?

Manning is the best. Over the things which the QB has the most control over, Manning usually comes out on top. When you start comparing things that the QB has less control over, other names start to emerge.

 

[printit]

I'm just so sick of the notion that Manning only winning one title ruins his legacy.

It's not just that he's only won one title.

He still has lost more playoff games than he's won. And, his play has been a factor in some of those losses.

He's very noticeably worse in the postseason than he is in the regular season. His QB rating is almost a full 10 points lower in the playoffs.

That being said, while he's no higher than No. 2 on the all-time list, he's certainly no lower than fourth or fifth.

Every QB has a lower QB rating in the playoffs.

 

[MisterCreosote]

Every QB has a lower QB rating in the playoffs.

Joe Montana's career regular-season QB rating: 92.3.

Joe Montana's career postseason QB rating: 95.6.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I'm just so sick of the notion that Manning only winning one title ruins his legacy.

It's not just that he's only won one title.

He still has lost more playoff games than he's won. And, his play has been a factor in some of those losses.

He's very noticeably worse in the postseason than he is in the regular season. His QB rating is almost a full 10 points lower in the playoffs.

That being said, while he's no higher than No. 2 on the all-time list, he's certainly no lower than fourth or fifth.

Every QB has a lower QB rating in the playoffs.

Not Montana: 92.3 regular season, 95.6 postseason.

Brady's at 95.7 regular season, 87.2 postseason.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Nobody has yet mentioned Unitas.

 

[MisterCreosote]

I don't understand the argument that, "Montana is 4-0 in the Super Bowl, therefore he is the best". If David Tyree drops the pass from Eli Manning, Tom Brady goes to 4-0 in the Super Bowl. Brady isn't as good as Montana because David Tyree caught that pass? And, when Brady goes to his fifth Super Bowl and loses close, bringing his total to 4-1, that makes him worse?

Manning is the best. Over the things which the QB has the most control over, Manning usually comes out on top. When you start comparing things that the QB has less control over, other names start to emerge.

It's not JUST that Montana's 4-0 in Super Bowls.

He was as close to flawless as one can be in Super Bowls.

He doesn't have the gaudy passing records, but in terms of quarterbacking efficiency in total, he was as good, if not better, than Manning.

Montana's performance in Super Bowls breaks the tie.

 

[Songbird]

This doesn't seal an argument or prove he was/is the GOAT. Still great to watch every single time:

 

[Gator]

Yeah, I agree it's still Montana. It's hard to argue with a 4-0 record in the Super Bowl, especially the way he won...

If someone said it was Manning, I wouldn't argue. I think he's clearly a better QB than Tom Brady. Manning never played for someone like Belichick, even if he did play for a soon to be first-ballot HOF coach (eyes roll).

Baugh, Graham and Starr have to be in the conversation. All-time does not just mean "Super Bowl Era" even though sometimes I think people forget that football was played before Super Bowl I.

It is hard to compare a QB from the 60s to one in the 1980s and to now...

I'm just so sick of the notion that Manning only winning one title ruins his legacy. Everybody can't win multiple titles... In this era of the NFL with this much parity, there are going to be upsets.

It's funny how you'll hold against Brady who he played FOR, but not hold it against Manning who he played WITH. With the exception of Randy Moss, Brady has never thrown to a sure-fire Hall of Fame receiver (although Welker is on his way). Manning around him will have at least two (Harrison and Wayne) and could potentially win a SB with Welker.

Montana, of course, had Rice, which makes his first two SB wins more impressive than the last two. My favorite growing up was Elway, who never had a good receiver to throw to. A good running game only made him better.

 

[Drip]

The best I ever saw were Unitas, Montana, Manning and Brady. Put 'em in any order you want, it's like saying champagne is better than caviar or a Ferrari. Not a worthwhile argument. I was too young to see Graham, and my father, who passed away age 93 but grew up in D.C., always swore Baugh was the best of them all. Baugh's got a case, but I can comment on is what I saw.

Excellent post Mike. And I'd throw two more in there - Starr and Staubach. They both ran their respective offense with precision.