Elmo's Shocking Death

[MisterCreosote]

...and passing another one definitely would've saved this poor 9-month-old from being shot to death. No question.

I know. This dead 9-month-old doesn't trump anyone's Constitutional rights, either.

 

[Hokie_pokie]

I know. This dead 9-month-old doesn't trump anyone's Constitutional rights, either.

Not sure why the two have to be mutually exclusive, or why we don't already have enough gun laws on the books. I'm sure you'd be willing to enlighten me.

 

[Dick Whitman]

No, I understand that argument (namely, that the death penalty isn't a deterrent because it's not actually factored into the calculations of those whose actions make them subject to it).

What you're suggesting is that my knowing that I might go to jail for 20 years (as opposed to, say, 10) would make me more likely to secure my firearms around my 5-year-old. I'm saying that would be a ridiculously trivial consideration -- so trivial as to not remotely affect my behavior -- when you realize that we're talking about the life of my 5-year-old.

Isn't there a signaling aspect to it, though?

Law is passed imposing come-to-Jesus penalties when something like this happens.

Therefore, people apt to be careless with their guns realize that people are sometimes careless with their guns, leading to the death of their children.

Said careless people also realize that this has been enough of a problem that state has imposed a come-to-Jesus punishment for people who let something like this happen.

Said careless people say to self: "Self, this is some serious business here. I should not be careless with my guns."

 

[User 11148]

I don't know, DW ... in the interest of honesty, though, I guess that could make a difference. I doubt it very seriously, though.

How many kids die in hot cars every year? I don't want to look up the statistics (because it'll break my heart), but I know the number's greater than zero. Of course there are the cases where the parents (or whoever's in charge) do it on purpose. But there are also the cases where some otherwise decent human being gets distracted and forgets that there's a kid, maybe asleep, in the back seat. I don't think doubling (or tripling) the penalty for that offense (whatever it is), is going to move those numbers. That's where I'm coming from here.

 

[User 4332]

Would any gun rights activists object to hellacious criminal negligence sentences for people who allow this **** to happen with their guns?

I'm usually not one for throwing the book at people, but there has to be some way to deter these instances where chidren are killed. Or maybe the penalties are stiff enough and this is just the cost of doing business.

Having a 5-year-old and 2-year-old myself who are so innocent it hurts because it's so beautiful, I have a tough time with these stories.

Gun rights activists? I dunno. But coming down hard on a parent in a situation like this can be incredibly divisive and will cause a significant portion of the public to be outraged.

There is a strong argument that a hellacious criminal sentence for a parent whose child found a loaded weapon and harmed another runs counter to the goals of our criminal justice system. The parent already must live with the grief of the lost child. The remaining children are now to be raised without a parent, in many cases subjecting them to foster care. Hefty punishment rarely acts as a deterrent. The parent's criminal negligence isn't devoid of deserving punishment, but the question is how much is appropriate. All we'd be accomplishing is quenching societal blood lust.

I say that as someone who has worked in a prosecutor's office that chose to file voluntary manslaughter charges against a mother whose gang-affiliated boyfriend left a revolver lying around which one child used to kill another. I also say it as someone who is in favor of harsh punishment for violent crime.

 

[MisterCreosote]

Not sure why the two have to be mutually exclusive, or why we don't already have enough gun laws on the books. I'm sure you'd be willing to enlighten me.

I'm agreeing with you. There's nothing that will be done here. Ever.