Cubs-White Sox obstruction

[bueller]

Anybody watching this on WGN? Wild play.

 

[doubledown68]

yup. I can remember stuff like this in my little league days. .

 

[clarkington]

Yeah but the sound on my TV is all f-ed up, what happened? Looks like sox got crazy double play then they ruled everyone was safe. Ozzie got tossed. Crazy.

 

[doubledown68]

deRosa doubles to right, but Pie tags from second... Pagan runs into Uribe rounding second, and he's thrown out, but since DeRosa is standing on second at the time, he gets caught in a rundown too.

Pie tries to score from third in the DeRosa rundown, and the Sox get Pie in a rundown and tag him out. DeRosa is on first with 2 outs. After a meeting long enough to forge a Middle East peace pact, the umpires rule that Pie goes to third, Pagan at second, and the outs are erased.

Did they make the right call.. I have no idea.

 

[bueller]

If a play is being made on the obstructed runner (Pagan in this case), yes, the ball is dead. But was a play being made on Pagan at the time of the obstruction?

 

[WaylonJennings]

That was the weirdest play I've ever seen in my 30-plus years of following this game.

 

[WaylonJennings]

So is Uribe not allowed to field his position?

 

[bueller]

The ball wasn't headed his way, so he wasn't fielding anything. Throw was going into home.

Rule 7.06
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/runner_7.jsp

 

[Johnny Dangerously]

deRosa doubles to right, but Pie tags from second...

I'm sure I'm just dense, but I am already lost. I'm one of those who needs the full context first -- how many runners on, how many outs, etc. -- and for some reason I can't follow this.

 

[WaylonJennings]

Right, but it looked like he was just covering second in the event of a throw there? Maybe that's just a judgment call for the umpires.

I get it now, though - they have to let the play play out in case the Cubs score runs. Sort of like a free play in the NFL when a DT or DE jumps offsides.

 

[zeke12]

If you run into a runner on your way to cover a base, that's obstruction.

You have to cede the baseline unless you're making a play on a batted ball.

I haven't seen the play, but I'm pretty sure that's the rule...

 

[WaylonJennings]

deRosa doubles to right, but Pie tags from second...

I'm sure I'm just dense, but I am already lost. I'm one of those who needs the full context first -- how many runners on, how many outs, etc. -- and for some reason I can't follow this.

CUbs had guys on first and second, no one out, and DeRosa doubles to deep right. Pagan, on first, tagged up thinking the ball would be caught. So then he gets thrown out trying to get back into second after rounding the base too far.

Next, DeRosa is caught between first and second. But Pie breaks from third and they run him down there.

Hawk Harrelson is going to have a stroke.

 

[zeke12]

If it pissed off Hawk, it is, by definition, the correct call.

 

[WaylonJennings]

Harrelson and Jackson just said that the rulebook said Rapuano should have called a dead ball at the time of the obstruction.

That makes no sense to me, because if that's the case, then you can tackle someone on second to stop someone on third from coming around to score.

That rule needs to be changed.

 

[zeke12]

Obstruction is an automatic dead ball, but runners can be awarded whatever base the umpire thinks they would have gotten safely were it not for the obstruction.

If you tackled a runner, it would be a dead ball, but the umpire can just send the runner as far as he thinks he would have gotten on his own.

EDIT:

From the rule bueller posted:

If a play is being made on the obstructed runner, or if the batterrunner is obstructed before he touches first base, the ball is dead and all runners shall advance, without liability to be put out, to the bases they would have reached, in the umpire’s judgment, if there had been no obstruction. The obstructed runner shall be awarded at least one base beyond the base he had last legally touched before the obstruction. Any preceding runners, forced to advance by the award of bases as the penalty for obstruction, shall advance without liability to be put out.

 

[WaylonJennings]

Obstruction is an automatic dead ball, but runners can be awarded whatever base the umpire thinks they would have gotten safely were it not for the obstruction.

If you tackled a runner, it would be a dead ball, but the umpire can just send the runner as far as he thinks he would have gotten on his own.

That's fine, but it would be much cleaner to just let it play out.

 

[zeke12]

No, if you don't have a dead ball situation, you open a whole 'nother can of worms...

 

[bueller]

Here's the GameDay synopsis for that inning:
Felix Pie walks.
Angel Pagan singles ... Pie to second. None out.
DeRosa singles.

My description from here:
Pie went to tag up on DeRosa's ball. Pagan went halfway. When the ball landed, Pagan held up rather than run over Pie, who ran toward third.

Uribe obstructs Pagan as he got to second.

Third base coach Mike Quade held Pie at third. Pagan was halfway to third and had to retreat.

The throw comes in from the outfield and the Sox cut it off, relay to second and apply the tag to Pagan.

DeRosa had rounded first too far thinking Pie was scoring and Pagan was going to third. He gets in a rundown.

Pie takes off for home and the Sox give up on DeRosa to go after Pie. Pie gets in a rundown and is tagged out.

Umpires huddle, decide everyone is safe and kick out Ozzie Guillen.

I wonder how much of the 10-minute huddle between the umps was deciding who would kick Ozzie out. That's a situation where a manager has to get kicked out.

 

[WaylonJennings]

But Guillen was totally calm the whole time. He must have been kicked out just for refusing to go back to the dugout. Or it was the most calmly stated "F you" I've ever seen.

 

[bueller]

It's not automatically a dead ball. Rapuano didn't signal "time" because no play was being made on Pagan. See part (b) of good 'ol 7.06.

(b) If no play is being made on the obstructed runner, the play shall proceed until no further action is possible. The umpire shall then call “Time” and impose such penalties, if any, as in his judgment will nullify the act of obstruction.