Costco Unplugs

[Boom_70]

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/17/citing-a-lack-of-usage-costco-removes-e-v-chargers/?ref=todayspaper

"Citing a Lack of Usage, Costco Removes E.V. Chargers"

 

[sgreenwell]

Kind of trust Costco on this more than the electric car advocacy groups, especially since Costco probably realized what a ****storm this would cause by removing them and decided it was worth it anyway.

 

[YankeeFan]

Several downtown Chicago garages have chargers:

When he drives downtown from North Riverside, he plugs in his car at a garage right across from his office. While his new litium batteries allow for a 80 to 100 mile range, he likes to keep a full charge in case he has to run errands after work. Plus, InterPark garages currently offer recharging for free.

“People who are working downtown…they have a solution,” said Jim Doria, senior vice president of InterPark Incorporated. “They can plug in and know that they’ll have enough charge to get back home.”

InterPark operates 12 garages in downtown Chicago that are equipped with electric car charging stations. The plug-ins are part of an eco-friendly push by the company that includes energy efficient lighting, paperless billing and greenery planted in and around the parking structures.

http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=177382

They set aside prime spots for them, and I never see a car parked at one.

I also don't understand the idea of giving away the "charge" for free.

If these cars ever become popular, owners are going to expect free charging stations as a part of the deal.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Several downtown Chicago garages have chargers:

When he drives downtown from North Riverside, he plugs in his car at a garage right across from his office. While his new litium batteries allow for a 80 to 100 mile range, he likes to keep a full charge in case he has to run errands after work. Plus, InterPark garages currently offer recharging for free.

“People who are working downtown…they have a solution,” said Jim Doria, senior vice president of InterPark Incorporated. “They can plug in and know that they’ll have enough charge to get back home.”

InterPark operates 12 garages in downtown Chicago that are equipped with electric car charging stations. The plug-ins are part of an eco-friendly push by the company that includes energy efficient lighting, paperless billing and greenery planted in and around the parking structures.

http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=177382

They set aside prime spots for them, and I never see a car parked at one.

I also don't understand the idea of giving away the "charge" for free.

If these cars ever become popular, owners are going to expect free charging stations as a part of the deal.

Do people expect free information from newspapers after the advent of the Internet?

I think you know the answer.

 

[Starman]

Drill baby drill. Let's all buy 1973 Cadillac Eldorados that get 6 mpg. That"ll show "em.

 

[YankeeFan]

Do people expect free information from newspapers after the advent of the Internet?

I think you know the answer.

Your point went right past me.

 

[pressmurphy]

Several downtown Chicago garages have chargers:

When he drives downtown from North Riverside, he plugs in his car at a garage right across from his office. While his new litium batteries allow for a 80 to 100 mile range, he likes to keep a full charge in case he has to run errands after work. Plus, InterPark garages currently offer recharging for free.

“People who are working downtown…they have a solution,” said Jim Doria, senior vice president of InterPark Incorporated. “They can plug in and know that they’ll have enough charge to get back home.”

InterPark operates 12 garages in downtown Chicago that are equipped with electric car charging stations. The plug-ins are part of an eco-friendly push by the company that includes energy efficient lighting, paperless billing and greenery planted in and around the parking structures.

http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=177382

They set aside prime spots for them, and I never see a car parked at one.

I also don't understand the idea of giving away the "charge" for free.

If these cars ever become popular, owners are going to expect free charging stations as a part of the deal.

Obviously, there's no such thing as free. The rest of the cars in those garages are subsidizing the new technology. That will change once electric-powered cars reach critical mass, whether that's in 15years or 50.

BTW, just wondering if whatever subsidies and tax incentives currently in place will be in play if/when Congress pulls the plug on tax breaks for corporate jets, etc. After all, there's lots of talk about how everyone has to pay their fair share yadda yadda yadda.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Do people expect free information from newspapers after the advent of the Internet?

I think you know the answer.

Your point went right past me.

The point is that, yes, people will expect it for free. Once people get something for free, they develop a feeling of entitlement pretty quickly. I think that a good comparison is people who get pissed off nowadays when, say, the NYT goes to a pay model.

 

[Azrael]

Henry Ford built the first Model T in 1908.

http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/showroom/1908/model.t.html

The first drive-in filling station opened in 1913.

http://explorepahistory.com/hmarker.php?markerId=1-A-112

 

[YankeeFan]

Do people expect free information from newspapers after the advent of the Internet?

I think you know the answer.

Your point went right past me.

The point is that, yes, people will expect it for free. Once people get something for free, they develop a feeling of entitlement pretty quickly. I think that a good comparison is people who get pissed off nowadays when, say, the NYT goes to a pay model.

OK. That was basically my point.

They will expect it for free. And there will be a **** storm if they have to pay for it.

It will become another "right" or "entitlement".

 

[Shoeless Joe]

I've got some questions about electric cars that someone may have answers to (and this isn't a gas/electric debate, just about the cars themselves)?

Are they even remotely practical outside of an urban area, and even then are they unless basically every parking spot in the world has a charging station?
What's the range of the cars and would they be practical in most of the United States and Canada where people drive many miles a day? I see them kind of like the rail system in Europe. While it would be great to have here, the distances just make it impossible.
If you're out driving and run out of juice, are you hopelessly screwed?
If you are out, run out of juice and do find a place to recharge, how long does it take to get you going again?

 

[The Big Ragu]

Henry Ford built the first Model T in 1908.

http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/showroom/1908/model.t.html

The first drive-in filling station opened in 1913.

http://explorepahistory.com/hmarker.php?markerId=1-A-112

There have been electric cars since the 1800s. It's an idea that is not practical or viable. It wasn't in the 1970s, when the U.S. Postal service tried it, or since the 1990s, with the revival of tries at it, began. We are talking about more than a hundred years, not 5 years, or if you just want to start the time clock in the 1990s, when this all started up again, decades now. There still isn't an electric charging station on every corner, for a reason.

Gas-powered vehicles are more expensive to run with gas prices higher. And they are still cheaper than, and without the limitations, of electric vehicles. When gasoline becomes expensive enough, some other technology will overtake it for running vehicles. We are nowhere near there yet, and when it does happen, it probably isn't going to be electricity, which has failed to do it since about the advent of the auto.

 

[Azrael]

Henry Ford built the first Model T in 1908.

http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/showroom/1908/model.t.html

The first drive-in filling station opened in 1913.

http://explorepahistory.com/hmarker.php?markerId=1-A-112

There have been electric cars since the 1800s. It's an idea that is not practical or viable. It wasn't in the 1970s, when the U.S. Postal service tried it, or since the 1990s, with the revival of tries at it, began. We are talking about more than a hundred years, not 5 years, or if you just want to start the time clock in the 1990s, when this all started up again, decades now. There still isn't an electric charging station on every corner, for a reason.

Gas-powered vehicles are more expensive to run with gas prices higher. And they are still cheaper than, and without the limitations, of electric vehicles. When gasoline becomes expensive enough, some other technology will overtake it for running vehicles. We are nowhere near there yet, and when it does happen, it probably isn't going to be electricity, which has failed to do it since about the advent of the auto.

I posted that to illustrate the lag time between a viable form of transportation and the development of an infrastructure to fuel it.

Costco created an infrastructure before there was a need for it.

 

[The Big Ragu]

Henry Ford built the first Model T in 1908.

http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/showroom/1908/model.t.html

The first drive-in filling station opened in 1913.

http://explorepahistory.com/hmarker.php?markerId=1-A-112

There have been electric cars since the 1800s. It's an idea that is not practical or viable. It wasn't in the 1970s, when the U.S. Postal service tried it, or since the 1990s, with the revival of tries at it, began. We are talking about more than a hundred years, not 5 years, or if you just want to start the time clock in the 1990s, when this all started up again, decades now. There still isn't an electric charging station on every corner, for a reason.

Gas-powered vehicles are more expensive to run with gas prices higher. And they are still cheaper than, and without the limitations, of electric vehicles. When gasoline becomes expensive enough, some other technology will overtake it for running vehicles. We are nowhere near there yet, and when it does happen, it probably isn't going to be electricity, which has failed to do it since about the advent of the auto.

I posted that to illustrate the lag time between a viable form of transportation and the development of an infrastructure to fuel it.

Costco created an infrastructure before there was a need for it.

OK. Misunderstood. I thought you were saying the need is imminent, it's just a year or two too early. Which seemed odd to me, because electric cars have been around forever. It's an idea without legs. I misunderstood why you posted it.

 

[LongTimeListener]

As hybrids have taken over, I have wondered about the need for an electric car. The standard is reduce your emissions by 20 percent, right? Going from 25 mph to 50, in a cleaner-burning engine besides, more than accomplishes that goal.

Those electric cars aren't cheap, either, and probably won't be anytime soon.

 

[Azrael]

Henry Ford built the first Model T in 1908.

http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/showroom/1908/model.t.html

The first drive-in filling station opened in 1913.

http://explorepahistory.com/hmarker.php?markerId=1-A-112

There have been electric cars since the 1800s. It's an idea that is not practical or viable. It wasn't in the 1970s, when the U.S. Postal service tried it, or since the 1990s, with the revival of tries at it, began. We are talking about more than a hundred years, not 5 years, or if you just want to start the time clock in the 1990s, when this all started up again, decades now. There still isn't an electric charging station on every corner, for a reason.

Gas-powered vehicles are more expensive to run with gas prices higher. And they are still cheaper than, and without the limitations, of electric vehicles. When gasoline becomes expensive enough, some other technology will overtake it for running vehicles. We are nowhere near there yet, and when it does happen, it probably isn't going to be electricity, which has failed to do it since about the advent of the auto.

I posted that to illustrate the lag time between a viable form of transportation and the development of an infrastructure to fuel it.

Costco created an infrastructure before there was a need for it.

OK. Misunderstood. I thought you were saying the need is imminent, it's just a year or two too early. Which seemed odd to me, because electric cars have been around forever. It's an idea without legs. I misunderstood why you posted it.

It also illustrates another point - that the lack of a widespread fueling infrastructure doesn't mean a mode of transportation is itself not viable.

 

[The Big Ragu]

Henry Ford built the first Model T in 1908.

http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/showroom/1908/model.t.html

The first drive-in filling station opened in 1913.

http://explorepahistory.com/hmarker.php?markerId=1-A-112

There have been electric cars since the 1800s. It's an idea that is not practical or viable. It wasn't in the 1970s, when the U.S. Postal service tried it, or since the 1990s, with the revival of tries at it, began. We are talking about more than a hundred years, not 5 years, or if you just want to start the time clock in the 1990s, when this all started up again, decades now. There still isn't an electric charging station on every corner, for a reason.

Gas-powered vehicles are more expensive to run with gas prices higher. And they are still cheaper than, and without the limitations, of electric vehicles. When gasoline becomes expensive enough, some other technology will overtake it for running vehicles. We are nowhere near there yet, and when it does happen, it probably isn't going to be electricity, which has failed to do it since about the advent of the auto.

I posted that to illustrate the lag time between a viable form of transportation and the development of an infrastructure to fuel it.

Costco created an infrastructure before there was a need for it.

OK. Misunderstood. I thought you were saying the need is imminent, it's just a year or two too early. Which seemed odd to me, because electric cars have been around forever. It's an idea without legs. I misunderstood why you posted it.

It also illustrates another point - that the lack of a widespread fueling infrastructure doesn't mean a mode of transportation is itself not viable.

In the case of the electric car, it means that there are not chargers all over the place because the car itself is impractical and more expensive than the common option available.

 

[Azrael]

Henry Ford built the first Model T in 1908.

http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/showroom/1908/model.t.html

The first drive-in filling station opened in 1913.

http://explorepahistory.com/hmarker.php?markerId=1-A-112

There have been electric cars since the 1800s. It's an idea that is not practical or viable. It wasn't in the 1970s, when the U.S. Postal service tried it, or since the 1990s, with the revival of tries at it, began. We are talking about more than a hundred years, not 5 years, or if you just want to start the time clock in the 1990s, when this all started up again, decades now. There still isn't an electric charging station on every corner, for a reason.

Gas-powered vehicles are more expensive to run with gas prices higher. And they are still cheaper than, and without the limitations, of electric vehicles. When gasoline becomes expensive enough, some other technology will overtake it for running vehicles. We are nowhere near there yet, and when it does happen, it probably isn't going to be electricity, which has failed to do it since about the advent of the auto.

I posted that to illustrate the lag time between a viable form of transportation and the development of an infrastructure to fuel it.

Costco created an infrastructure before there was a need for it.

OK. Misunderstood. I thought you were saying the need is imminent, it's just a year or two too early. Which seemed odd to me, because electric cars have been around forever. It's an idea without legs. I misunderstood why you posted it.

It also illustrates another point - that the lack of a widespread fueling infrastructure doesn't mean a mode of transportation is itself not viable.

In the case of the electric car, it means that there are not chargers all over the place because the car itself is impractical and more expensive than the common option available.

As most horse owners would have said to you about the gasoline automobile in 1908. The introduction of a single successful mass-produced version of that technology changed everyone's mind.

 

[The Big Ragu]

Henry Ford built the first Model T in 1908.

http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/showroom/1908/model.t.html

The first drive-in filling station opened in 1913.

http://explorepahistory.com/hmarker.php?markerId=1-A-112

There have been electric cars since the 1800s. It's an idea that is not practical or viable. It wasn't in the 1970s, when the U.S. Postal service tried it, or since the 1990s, with the revival of tries at it, began. We are talking about more than a hundred years, not 5 years, or if you just want to start the time clock in the 1990s, when this all started up again, decades now. There still isn't an electric charging station on every corner, for a reason.

Gas-powered vehicles are more expensive to run with gas prices higher. And they are still cheaper than, and without the limitations, of electric vehicles. When gasoline becomes expensive enough, some other technology will overtake it for running vehicles. We are nowhere near there yet, and when it does happen, it probably isn't going to be electricity, which has failed to do it since about the advent of the auto.

I posted that to illustrate the lag time between a viable form of transportation and the development of an infrastructure to fuel it.

Costco created an infrastructure before there was a need for it.

OK. Misunderstood. I thought you were saying the need is imminent, it's just a year or two too early. Which seemed odd to me, because electric cars have been around forever. It's an idea without legs. I misunderstood why you posted it.

It also illustrates another point - that the lack of a widespread fueling infrastructure doesn't mean a mode of transportation is itself not viable.

In the case of the electric car, it means that there are not chargers all over the place because the car itself is impractical and more expensive than the common option available.

As most horse owners would have said to you about the gasoline automobile in 1908. The introduction of a single successful mass-produced version of that technology changed everyone's mind.

There have been lots of attempts at marketing electric cars. This is an idea that goes back to before Henry Ford. There is little demand, because it's not practical (a scaled down car gives you range of less than 200 miles) and it can't be done cheaply.

The difference between the horse-drawn carriage and the mass-produced internal combustion engine vehicle is that the internal combustion engine car was cheaper, and it was way better. Electric vehicles have severe limitations relative to gas-powered engines. It's why no one has been able to market one. It doesn't beat what already exists. MAYBE if gas becomes a lot more expensive, people will look for alternatives, but we aren't anywhere near there yet, and if we reach that point other potential technologies don't have the range limitations.

 

[Dick Whitman]

So if electric cars took off - and most of them need some gas, correct? - wouldn't gas producers just reduce the supply of gas, therefore in the end people would have to spend just as much on gas as they do now? Just more per gallon?