Community Colleges

[YankeeFan]

One of the big proposals that the President will surely mention in tonight's State of the Union address is his proposal to make the first two years of community college free (up to $3,800 per year) for the first two years for students who are in school half-time, are working towards a degree, and are maintaining a 2.5 GPA (which seems low to me).

The proposal looks dead on arrival in the Republican controlled Congress, but my question is whether or not Community Colleges are even providing the bang for the buck that their advocates would suggest.

We have something like 1,200 Community Colleges, and enrollment has grown from about 5.5 million in 2000 to nearly 9 million today. But, completion rates are low, and the number of students who go on to attain a four year degree is even lower.

Increasingly they are offering job training and certificate programs, which don't necessarily lead to jobs.

Have they proven their value to the degree where we should be investing more money in them?

 

[LongTimeListener]

At least in California, community colleges are the greatest thing going, UC has a program that if you go there for two years and get prereqs out of the way, if you get the grades you are automatically admitted to the corresponding UC school for your final two years. You don't even have to be "accepted" to Berkeley or UCLA or San Diego -- if you get the grades, you're in. It means kids are getting prestigious degrees from places they had no prayer of attending after high school.

It's a few years down the road for us, but that's where our early thoughts would be. It saves tens of thousands of dollars.

 

[SnarkShark]

I'm a California community college and Cal State product. I saved thousands of dollars by going to community college and, at least in my experience, I learned a hell of a lot more in community college than at the Cal State. I don't know if that reflects more on the CC or the Cal State.

 

[YankeeFan]

At least in California, community colleges are the greatest thing going, UC has a program that if you go there for two years and get prereqs out of the way, if you get the grades you are automatically admitted to the corresponding UC school for your final two years. You don't even have to be "accepted" to Berkeley or UCLA or San Diego -- if you get the grades, you're in. It means kids are getting prestigious degrees from places they had no prayer of attending after high school.

It's a few years down the road for us, but that's where our early thoughts would be. It saves tens of thousands of dollars.

That makes total sense, and sounds like a great opportunity.

I'd like to see smaller, more targeted programs, rather than these proposals to just get more kids in the front door.

 

[BDC99]

Not only did community college help me tremendously, but I likely would not have a college degree without it. I didn't have the grades or the money to get into a state university, but community college allowed me to get my **** together and make it to the university while also saving me a ton of money. And our community colleges have some pretty good two-year degrees for those who don't want to spend so long in school. My best friend is a firefighter, and he wouldn't be doing that either without the community college. He didn't do so well in high school either and eventually dropped out. So the community college was a huge lifeline for both of us.

 

[Boom_70]

Cam Newton and Jason Pierre Paul certainly benefited by the JC system,

 

[qtlaw]

In California, I've seen the community colleges provide a huge asset to the students who would otherwise drop out of the academic system. As those above point out, they had an opportunity to reenter the 4 yr system after initially not qualifying. They also saved money doing so. It makes a college education more affordable. I've also seen students go extended durations at the CC, then finally matriculate to a 4 yr institution and get their degree. They are a great asset to our society.

 

[BDC99]

We have something like 1,200 Community Colleges, and enrollment has grown from about 5.5 million in 2000 to nearly 9 million today. But, completion rates are low, and the number of students who go on to attain a four year degree is even lower.

The completion rate is most definitely an issue, and I'm not sure what the answer is. I do know that the incentive programs help you stick with it, though I think 2.5 GPA is a bit low as well. I worked my way through college, and the company I worked for reimbursed my tuition based on my grades. It definitely made me work harder to get as much of my mom's money back as I could.

 

[LongTimeListener]

In my perfect world, the tuition waiver would be not a grant but a loan that is forgiven if the person gets a bachelor's degree within five years of the loan.

 

[YankeeFan]

In my perfect world, the tuition waiver would be not a grant but a loan that is forgiven if the person gets a bachelor's degree within five years of the loan.

I think something like that males sense as well.

 

[User 11148]

If LTL gets his wish with regard to this program, that means this program probably doesn't accomplish all that much. The folks who are going to get the bachelor's degree were going to anyway.

I don't really think this program has even the potential to accomplish all that much, because community college is so damn cheap anyway. My older daughter takes a few fill-in courses here and there, and I'd estimate we'll drop maybe a grand on the 10 to 12 credit hours that will ultimately appear on her transcript. One 3-hour course at my lowly university runs about $1,600 ...

 

[Huggy]

I was a 30-year-old graduate of a community college here in suburban Toronto. Toughest - and best - thing I ever did was go back to school after I was laid off at 27. I was a terrible high school student and never would have been able to get in to - or afford - university. Community colleges are very prevalent up here.

 

[User 1019]

Had I not gone to community college -- at night while changing tires and covering football games (stringing) -- I would not have a four-year edumacation. It's pretty simple. I encouraged my young Soldiers to take advantage of it by giving each of them two free days off work for each college class they completed. Many of them took me up on it and are better off for it.

 

[LongTimeListener]

I think it will limit participation to those who really want it, dq -- just as a $10 sign-up fee limits an after-school activity to people who want to be there. if they're just handing out money to anyone, you'll have even higher dropout rates than you do now.

 

[YankeeFan]

If LTL gets his wish with regard to this program, that means this program probably doesn't accomplish all that much.

Seems to me it might accomplish about the same as the President's plan for a lot less money.

 

[Mr. Sunshine]

The president's plan is free.

 

[Mr. Sunshine]

As for community colleges, I would not be as successfully condescending were it not for that freshman English class I took right after high school.

 

[HanSenSE]

Didn't go to a juco, but have been in and around them for years on the beat. If a student is not sure what he/she wants to major in, it's a cheap way to get their GE out of the way and explore a few fields. And they do change lives.

 

[Hokie_pokie]

The older of my 2 kids is a late-bloomer academically -- very late, in fact -- and would have zero chance to get into any 4-year school with the transcript he currently possesses.

But he's finally starting to get his **** together, was on the A-B honor roll for the first time after the first 9 weeks of his Sr. year, and seems genuinely interested in pursuing higher education.

For a kid like him, Virginia's excellent community college system is a godsend.

He gets to live at home and keep his PT job, so no temptation to party every night and sleep all day -- which is basically what his idiot father did as a freshman. (Academic probation? Who cares?)

$8,000 for 2 years of dopey gen-ed classes is a massive bargain.

And while the threshold differs for each college/university, if he gets his Associates and keeps the GPA around 3.0, the guaranteed acceptance program will give him an opportunity to finish a 4-year degree at a nice state school.

On the other hand, if he enrolls in classes, realizes college really isn't for him and decides to go another route, the financial hit is way less than it otherwise would've been.

Struggling to see the downside here...

 

[SnarkShark]

You know what? I've flipped on this. I paid my way through college and I know tons of people who worked their asses off to do the same.

I think costs should be lowered, especially at the public university level, but I don't think it should be given away for free.