BitTorrent site guys going to jail

[The Big Ragu]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8003799.stm

For those of you who use a BitTorrent client, such as Vuze, to download (i.e. engage in piracy) various things, including movies and music, you are probably familiar with the Pirate Bay, which is a website that is the best torrent tracker. In recent years it has been run by a bunch of Swedes and they have been involved in lawsuits for a while and kept staving off efforts to shut down the site. They were shut down for a few days last year and relaunched defiantly. But they were still being prosecuted criminally in Sweden.

A Swedish court came down with a verdict, apparently, and four guys are going to jail for a year and were ordered to pay the equivalent of more than $3.5 million in damages for copyright infringement. Interestingly, though, the site (http://thepiratebay.org/) is still operational and because it is run by individuals it looks like it may remain so. I'm trying to figure out how this works. As with most peer-to-peer sharing, their argument has always been that they are just providing an informational site. They aren't actively engaged in giving away copyrighted content and can't control what their users do. I think that is why the site remains operational. But apparently, the argument won't keep them out of prison.

EDIT: I really should have put this on Sports & News, I think, so I am going to move it.

 

[Pastor]

The site will continue to run because the drivers are mirrored on other systems not located in Sweden and not run by these guys.

 

[The Big Ragu]

It makes it interesting that they are still criminally liable.

 

[Dirk Legume]

I have never used any of the torrent sites (not over moral issues...I just have never understood how they work, I am not that bright) But it seems that from a legal standpoint, the Pirate Bay guys are the ones who are liable, because even with the mirror sites, they own that one.

I would think you just keep going through layers until you find the source, and theres the guy you prosecute.

 

[mustangj17]

I think the Somalian Pirates should set up sites like this. Since they are a lawless country nobody will prosecute them. And this way they make money, and we get our illegal stuff. Oh yeah, and this way they stop attacking our ships.

 

[KG]

I understand how it's hard to prosecute, since it's users that feed/seed these sites (I still don't get how that really works), but you'd think they would be able to actually shut the site down if they can send the guys to jail.

 

[2muchcoffeeman]

The site will continue to run because the drivers are mirrored on other systems not located in Sweden and not run by these guys.

<blockquote>Research by Raynor Vliegendhart of the Tribler P2P team at Delft University of Technology has shown that BitTorrent is more vulnerable to a global collapse than anyone has ever predicted. By collecting statistics of a sample of 283,032 torrents with 52,634,797 connected peers, he found that over 50% of all torrents were tracked by The Pirate Bay. . . .

Raynor told TorrentFreak that if The Pirate Bay goes down, many of the other trackers might collapse as well. “If The Pirate Bay goes down the load will automatically shift to others. This is because most of the Pirate Bay swarms also include other trackers. When Pirate Bay goes down it would overload others until they fall also. Meaning even more stress and further casualties. This is likely to end in a BitTorrent meltdown.”</blockquote>http://torrentfreak.com/p2p-researchers-fear-bittorrent-meltdown-090212/

 

[KG]

By reading that last one, I assume they have servers that can only take so much?

 

[2muchcoffeeman]

By reading that last one, I assume they have servers that can only take so much?

Bingo.

 

[Pastor]

It makes it interesting that they are still criminally liable.

They are criminally liable for that which they provide on the servers they run.

 

[The Big Ragu]

It makes it interesting that they are still criminally liable.

They are criminally liable for that which they provide on the servers they run.

I am not legally up to snuff on this, but the genius of a torrent is that there actually isn't any copyrighted material sitting on these guys' servers, right? Just trackers. And then you use your own client to initiate the download.

Again, I don't know how any current law really addressed something like that, and I don't know what is what in the Swedish legal system, but at the least I can see making a compelling legal argument that they personally have never violated anyone's copyright.

 

[Pastor]

It makes it interesting that they are still criminally liable.

They are criminally liable for that which they provide on the servers they run.

I am not legally up to snuff on this, but the genius of a torrent is that there actually isn't any copyrighted material sitting on these guys' servers, right? Just trackers. And then you use your own client to initiate the download.

Again, I don't know how any current law really addressed something like that, and I don't know what is what in the Swedish legal system, but at the least I can see making a compelling legal argument that they personally have never violated anyone's copyright.

I'm not disagreeing. However, it is my understanding when I first heard about the case a while back that their servers did, in fact, have a ton of stuff on it.

 

[bostonbred]

IF TPB really does go down, within a month, there will be a new powerhouse or three on the scene. It's that simple.
Pegging this is as "BitTorrent meltdown" is incredibly over-the-top.

 

[Diabeetus]

IF TPB really does go down, within a month, there will be a new powerhouse or three on the scene. It's that simple.
Pegging this is as "BitTorrent meltdown" is incredibly over-the-top.

Agreed. There's always someone to fill the void. Just ask Napster Aimster KaZaA Limewire BitTorrent

 

[write then drink]

It makes it interesting that they are still criminally liable.

They are criminally liable for that which they provide on the servers they run.

I am not legally up to snuff on this, but the genius of a torrent is that there actually isn't any copyrighted material sitting on these guys' servers, right? Just trackers. And then you use your own client to initiate the download.

correct ... and, yeah, it is a brilliant system

the pirate bay - or any other bittorrent tracker - has no content on its servers, it merely serves as a site where users can connect with each other. those who defend it say it's no different than people trading tapes. and the tracker serves as a way for people looking to trade can find each other.

and it's important to remember there are legal bittorrent trackers out there, like dimeadozen, which are strictly monitored and only track lossless live shows by bands who have agreed to let their music be shared.

bittorrent itself is not illegal, it's just a form of sharing data.

say i seed a coldplay show. it pops up on the tracker. 20 other people want the show. they connect with the tracker, which in turn connects with me. as the 20 people begin downloading the show from me at different speeds, other people connect who want the show (leechers) and begin downloading from all 21 people now in the swarm while simultaneously uploading to other users. the more seeders, the faster the download.

most (but not all) the legal sites require that users maintain a specific ratio (usually anywhere from .25 to .50) of data uploaded to data downloaded to prevent people from just popping on, downloading stuff, then disappearing. this means you have to stay on & seed other users, you can't just swoop in, grab and swoop out.

 

[Football_Bat]

This thread violates the first and second rules of BitTorrent.

 

[proudpittsburgher]

Which are . . .

1. Never talk about Bit Torrent, and what is the second again?

 

[Double J]

Funny that these guys are going to jail and Bernie Madoff still gets to live in his Upper East Side penthouse apartment under "house arrest." ::)

 

[PopeDirkBenedict]

.

 

[PopeDirkBenedict]

Ragu,

IIRC, it is illegal to create software if the software's primary purpose is to allow others to violate copyright laws.