Billy Beane: Hall of Famer?

[NDJournalist]

Figure the convo is worth having. I say yes, without question.

 

[LongTimeListener]

If he doesn't, Rob Neyer can turn the shrine in his bedroom into a tourist attraction. Maybe a gift shop on the front porch.

 

[Dick Whitman]

He hasn't won an A.L. pennant, let alone a World Series.

I understand the sentiment, and I think it's interesting to think about, but I think that Bill James has to get in before you even begin contemplating the executives who drafted off of his approach.

An interesting question: Assuming status quo, in that neither one ever wins another World Series, can you vote in Theo Epstein but not Beane? Can you induct Bob Dylan but not Woody Guthrie?

 

[da man]

I've got hand it to the kid for thinking outside the box.

This is much better than the run-of-the-mill player Hall of Fame thread.

 

[Gehrig]

Beane has had a lot of regular season success but to be considered a serious HoF candidate he needs to win a World Series title. At this point in time Brian Sabean, with his two World Series titles, is a stronger HoF candidate. I'm not a huge Brian Sabean fan but he is quietly racking up a HoF case well ahead of Billy Beane IMO.

 

[Boom_70]

Shouldn't Sandy Alderson be ahead of Beane in HOF line since he was the one
who really created the value concept to building The A's.

Not saying Beane is not a smart baseball man but he gets a lot of credit for
things that others did and he benefited. Mulder, Hudson and Zitto certainly
helped and they were all obtained under traditional scouting.

 

[Gehrig]

Shouldn't Sandy Alderson be ahead of Beane in HOF line since he was the one
who really created the value concept to building The A's.

Not saying Beane is not a smart baseball man but he gets a lot of credit for
things that others did and he benefited. Mulder, Hudson and Zitto certainly
helped and they were all obtained under traditional scouting.

Alderson was definitely the one that introduced Beane to sabermetrics. When Alderson hired Beane as an advanced scout Alderson had Beane read all of the Bill James Baseball abstracts.

http://www.amazinavenue.com/2010/10/...of-early-years

 

[TigerVols]

Dude had 3 HRs and 29 RBIs TOTAL in 6 years in the Majors. With numbers like that, he better not get in before Mark Lemke.

 

[NDJournalist]

To clarify: I'm not advocating his inclusion as a player. I believe he should go in as a GM.

 

[da man]

To clarify: I'm not advocating his inclusion as a player. I believe he should go in as a GM.

No ****? 'Cause those sound like HOF numbers.

 

[amraeder]

Dude had 3 HRs and 29 RBIs TOTAL in 6 years in the Majors. With numbers like that, he better not get in before Mark Lemke.

Well played, sir

 

[dooley_womack1]

Yeah, Alderson is sure burnishing that Hall of Fame resume with the Mets.

As to the question at hand: Hell. No.

 

[NDJournalist]

Yeah, Alderson is sure burnishing that Hall of Fame resume with the Mets.

As to the question at hand: Hell. No.

Why not? He continually wins division titles with a $60 million payroll and was one of the driving forces behind the sabermetric movement in baseball, at least the heavy emphasis of it.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Terry Ryan's Twins had as much or more success with the same kind of payroll limitations.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Terry Ryan's Twins had as much or more success with the same kind of payroll limitations.

The Rays have had even more.

The question would be, in this total hypothetical, what influence the A's have had on how the rest of the organizations run themselves. Was this where things were headed anyway, and the A's were just first? I've heard historians discount the importance, for example, of a Lincoln or a founding father because abolition and independence were inevitabilities.

 

[Brian]

To consider him a Hall of famer, you'd have to view Beane as a Bill Veeck-like figure in the game, wouldn't you? I just don't think he's up to that standard.

 

[da man]

Terry Ryan's Twins had as much or more success with the same kind of payroll limitations.

The Rays have had even more.

The question would be, in this total hypothetical, what influence the A's have had on how the rest of the organizations run themselves. Was this where things were headed anyway, and the A's were just first? I've heard historians discount the importance, for example, of a Lincoln or a founding father because abolition and independence were inevitabilities.

Yeah, Lincoln's WAR was good but his OPS-plus wasn't all that great.

 

[dooley_womack1]

Beane has not built a league champion, let alone a world champion. And he gets fired pretty quick without having three aces. Without Lewis, he's Terry Ryan, at best.

 

[Dick Whitman]

The idea of Beane in the HOF right now is ludicrous, but no less so than downgrading him because he hypothetically would have been fired if hypothetically he had had a worse team than he actually had.

 

[buckweaver]

Here's the list of people voted into the Hall of Fame as Executives/Pioneers, with bold for the folks who at least partially served in the role of modern-day GM/presidents so we're at least comparing oranges to clementines:

Ed Barrow
Morgan Bulkeley
Alexander Cartwright
Henry Chadwick
Happy Chandler
Charles Comiskey
Barney Dreyfuss
Ford Frick
Warren Giles
Pat Gillick
Clark Griffith
William Harridge
William Hulbert
Ban Johnson
Bowie Kuhn
Kenesaw Landis
Larry MacPhail
Lee MacPhail
Effa Manley
Walter O'Malley
Alex Pompez
Cum Posey
Branch Rickey
Jacob Ruppert
Al Spalding
Bill Veeck
George Weiss
Sol White
J.L. Wilkinson
George Wright
Harry Wright
Tom Yawkey

And from the post-World War II era, you're basically only looking at George Weiss, Lee MacPhail, Branch Rickey, Bill Veeck, Walter O'Malley and Pat Gillick.

That's an extremely short list — and Billy Beane, for all his innovations and success, is nowhere near it, IMO.

Who else will get voted in as an executive? I think George Steinbrenner probably gets in, at least in the Tom Yawkey Lucky Sperm Club wing.

John Schuerholz has the best chance of any recent GM types, I think. Walt Jocketty, one day? Umm, maybe Buzzie Bavasi? Now we're starting to scrape the barrel here. I don't think any of the other old-time GMs are getting in anymore (Gabe Paul, Bob Howsam, Harry Dalton, Bing Devine, et al.) Roland Hemond just received the Buck O'Neil Award, and while he's highly deserving of that, it leads me to strongly believe he's not ever getting in as an executive.

Jerry Reinsdorf, perhaps, as an owner. I think there's a case to be made for him. Gussie Busch, maybe?

This is also the category where Bud Selig will get elected. And make no mistake, he's an absolute lock to get elected — look at all those commissioners and league presidents on that list. Just a matter of when and how, and if some iteration of the veterans' committee can do it in time for him to enjoy it before he dies.

Anyway, no on Beane until he wins a World Series, maybe two. And even then ...