BALCO legacy stymied Mitchell

[creamora]

Over fifty million dollars spent by the federal government and over fifty million dollars spent by MLB and what do we really have to show for a combined 100 million dollar investment over five years? The longest sentence in the BALCO case is 30 months in a "club fed" for a lawyer leaking evidence to the media. The longest sentence for a supplier was four months with no co-operation required. However, baseball is making more money now than ever and still has a totally inept drug testing program in place. This article below sums up the entire fiasco pretty well.

Jonathan Littman does a fairly good job of describing the net results
of the combined 100 millons dollars spent below.

"Ninety to one.

That's the ratio to chew on. Proportions matter. Perceptions count. Ninety current and former players named in the Mitchell report and only one in the dock, the government's certifiable scapegoat, Barry Bonds.

The slam-dunk case against Roger Clemens – better than anything the government has mustered so far against Bonds – makes one wonder. Where was the grand jury and perjury trap for Clemens? Why didn't the government set him up for a fall?"

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=li-bondsmitchell121607&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

 

[outofplace]

You know how to avoid a perjury trap? Don't lie.

 

[Gold]

You know how to avoid a perjury trap? Don't lie.

No, take the fifth amendment

 

[The Big Ragu]

What is your point, creamora? Is it that Barry Bonds, Marion Jones and close to 30 other athletes are being persecuted? Is it that Victor Conte was wrongly persecuted?

Forget the dollar amounts. And forget major league baseball. Are all of those people exactly who the public believes they are/were -- some drug dealers and the steroid users those dealers were supplying? If so, please explain your agenda on each of these threads. Maybe in most of our minds these aren't the crimes of the century. But these people (especially the BALCO crew, which you inordinately focus on) are guilty of what they were accused. There is no miscarriage of justice when they broke the law and pled guilty to what they got caught doing. That IS justice.

I'll grant you this. There are lots of suppliers laughing their asses off today, because they haven't gotten caught by the Feds and their names were nowhere near the Mitchell Report. In scope, my guess is that Kirk Radomski had much greater reach in major league baseball than Victor Conte did, although I can't know that for sure, because while Radomski had incentive to spill his guts as part of his plea agreement, Conte has only ever copped to what he has gotten caught doing red-handed. In any case, even if Conte was the smallest fish in a pond full of great white sharks, he still was swimming with the sharks. Your arguments at times have seemed to sound like: "If we can't catch everyone, we shouldn't bother with any of them." That isn't how most people feel, though. The BALCO boys broke the law. They got caught because their playground was a dangerous one -- the world of track & field and its petty rivalries. The story kind of ends there. Broke the law/ Got caught. Got a lot of attention because of the names of the people they were selling drugs to. Went to prison. Served/ And the 15 minutes of fame ended, even if the lead BALCO player is working hard to make himself into a Surreal Life character.

 

[Boom_70]

Over fifty million dollars spent by the federal government and over fifty million dollars spent by MLB and what do we really have to show for a combined 100 million dollar investment over five years? The longest sentence in the BALCO case is 30 months in a "club fed" for a lawyer leaking evidence to the media. The longest sentence for a supplier was four months with no co-operation required. However, baseball is making more money now than ever and still has a totally inept drug testing program in place. This article below sums up the entire fiasco pretty well.

Jonathan Littman does a fairly good job of describing the net results
of the combined 100 millons dollars spent below.

"Ninety to one.

That's the ratio to chew on. Proportions matter. Perceptions count. Ninety current and former players named in the Mitchell report and only one in the dock, the government's certifiable scapegoat, Barry Bonds.

The slam-dunk case against Roger Clemens – better than anything the government has mustered so far against Bonds – makes one wonder. Where was the grand jury and perjury trap for Clemens? Why didn't the government set him up for a fall?"

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=li-bondsmitchell121607&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

War on illegal drugs is never going to be mathematically justifiable. Just look at the 40 billion that is spent on trying to stop sale of narcotics.

The arguments for are always going to be subjective and qualitative.

You cannot look at it through ratios.

 

[Inky_Wretch]

Over fifty million dollars spent by the federal government and over fifty million dollars spent by MLB and what do we really have to show for a combined 100 million dollar investment over five years? The longest sentence in the BALCO case is 30 months in a "club fed" for a lawyer leaking evidence to the media. The longest sentence for a supplier was four months with no co-operation required. However, baseball is making more money now than ever and still has a totally inept drug testing program in place.

So let's start giving 'roids to everybody. Let's put every child on HGH. And let's make the cream and clear as accessible as Coke and Pepsi.

It's the American way!

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

No.
But let's think about the incredibly futile waste of time and money in the war against some drugs.

 

[The Big Ragu]

No.
But let's think about the incredibly futile waste of time and money in the war against some drugs.

That's a legit argument. One I agree with, actually. It's also NOT the argument creamora makes on these threads. Until as a country we do decide that it is futile and a waste of time, anyone who deals drug is still knowingly doing something that is against the law. I suppose you could deal drugs as an act of civil disobedience -- because you believe the law is stupid, you are going to violate it and be ready to face the consequences for doing so. Of course that doesn't characterize any of these small handful of dealers the Feds have snagged.

 

[outofplace]

No.
But let's think about the incredibly futile waste of time and money in the war against some drugs.

Does any of that justify the use of steroids and other performance enhancing drugs? Does it justify perjury? Because no matter how foolish the expenditures might have been, it doesn't change what Bonds or any of the other people being investigated actually did.

 

[Inky_Wretch]

Fen, I object to Victor Conte being portrayed as a noble American being victimized by the Feds.

 

[zeke12]

Fen, I object to Victor Conte being portrayed as a noble American being victimized by the Feds.

Sustained.

Go in another direction, Mr. *******.

 

[21]

How did Fenian portray Conte as a victim or a hero?

He said the steroid chase was a massive waste of tax dollars.

And considering steroid use and abuse affects a profoundly miniscule percentage of the population (I know, THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!), it's not impossible to see his point, is it?

 

[mike311gd]

Congratulations, Creamora, on becoming a junior member by writing all 500 posts on one topic. It's truly a magnificent feat.

 

[The Big Ragu]

It really is a remarkable feat. I'm assuming you have other interests, creamora... Not to go all Dating Game intro on you, but what are some of your other interests?

 

[creamora]

Ragu says, "That isn't how most people feel." How do you know how most people feel? It's my opinion that the majority of people think this entire saga has been a waste of federal taxpayer dollars. Your opinion may not represent the overwhelming majority of people like you seem to think. I 've said it many times before. The tide is going to change when the appropriate time comes. It is about the subpoena power that now exists again. It's about cheating to win and the federal government has been cheating in ways that are more illegal than what some of the athletes involved were doing. Just because the evidence of investigative misconduct has not surfaced yet, does not mean that it doesn't exit. There are some very good reasons why the evidence of this has not been revealed thus far. It's best to wait until the entire story is told before making a judgement.

 

[creamora]

Ragu,

By the way, I just love reading your 1,000 word posts. Thanks for providing so much insightful information for the discussion.

 

[The Big Ragu]

It's about cheating to win and the federal government has been cheating in ways that are more illegal than what some of the athletes involved were doing.

Serious accusation. I'd love to see the evidence. Please provide. [/10 word post]

 

[creamora]

I agree. Fabrication of information in police reports and false declarations filed with a federal court under penalty of perjury are pretty serious crimes. The evidence will come during direct examination of law enforcement officers in a federal court.

 

[heyabbott]

You know how to avoid a perjury trap? Don't lie.

No, take the fifth amendment

You can't plead the 5th when they offer you immunity.

 

[creamora]

As I've previously posted, the tide is going to change. Not all
journalists have blinders on and Sally Jenkins is one who doesn't.

And by the way, Jenkins is white.


Singling Out A Double Standard

By Sally Jenkins
Washington Post
Tuesday, December 18, 2007

The feds are going after all those asterisked pitchers and batters, aren't they? They're going to subpoena the Cy Youngs and most valuable players, and demand the return of the trophies and the money, right? They better. That, or show some leniency toward Marion Jones and Barry Bonds. Otherwise, it's going to beg an ugly question: Why are Jones and Bonds picking up the most expensive tab for performance enhancing? Why are they cheats and criminals, while others merely made "mistakes"?

Are prosecutors going to convene a grand jury, and call Roger Clemens (white man)? Will they pursue him across a half-decade until they force either perjury or a public confession from him? Are IRS investigators going to dog Kevin Brown (white man) and Chuck Knoblauch (white man) with the same Inspector Javert-like fervor? Will they audit bank accounts, grill confidants and lean on informants?

Will spectators and commentators have the same flaying, foam-flecked rage for Rick Ankiel (white man) and Andy Pettitte (white man)? Will we hear demands from (white) officialdom that their names be expunged forever from the books, that they be stripped of honors and bankrupted, reviled as the cheats of the century?

Why is it that our most severe penalties and public condemnations are reserved for Bonds (black man) and Jones (black woman)?

There's a nasty double standard here, and it can't be conveniently explained away. The rationalizations don't cut it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/17/AR2007121702194.html