Ah, Serena...

[Double Down]

Padraig Harrington agrees wholeheartedly with this thread, because he was the 2008 player of the year so he is THE BEST, PERIOD, until the 2009 award. Let's all hope the Woods guy doesn't make an ass out of himself and claim to be the best.

The difference would be that Tiger takes his role in the sport ridiculously serious, understands his place in history, and lives to beat the ever loving **** out of everyone every week he competes. I think the only time Tiger's ever shown up ill-prepared for a tournament was the US Open after Earl died. And while Tiger might shrug and give a smart alleck grin, I do think he gives credit to other golfers (for the most part) when they beat him. I don't believe Serena does.

Although Elliotte's point is fair, I think Alma's is as well. There is a tightrope walk between arrogance, confidence and delusion. Serena is a great athlete, and she'll go down as one of the greatest players ever. And it's probably a good thing that she's had interests outside her sport because I don't think anyone should be punished for believing there is more to life than tennis. But Safina is No. 1 because she's dragged her ass to tournaments all around the world for the better part of a year and taken on all comers. There is something to be said for that, the desire to compete often and be there competing because it's good for the sport, not just for good for the player. If everyone played Serena's schedule, there would be no WTA Tour. So people like Safina are essentially subsidizing the big paychecks that Serena can win when she choses to by keeping the momentum of the tour going year round.

Of course Serena's probably still the best player. But she's not the No. 1 ranked player. They're clearly two different things. If it mattered to Serena to be No. 1, she could probably change that. Clearly it does not. It mattered to Steffi Graff to be No. 1, and that's part of the reason why Serena will never touch Steffi's 22 Slams.

 

[Big Chee]

Padraig Harrington agrees wholeheartedly with this thread, because he was the 2008 player of the year so he is THE BEST, PERIOD, until the 2009 award. Let's all hope the Woods guy doesn't make an ass out of himself and claim to be the best.

The difference would be that Tiger takes his role in the sport ridiculously serious, understands his place in history, and lives to beat the ever loving **** out of everyone every week he competes. I think the only time Tiger's ever shown up ill-prepared for a tournament was the US Open after Earl died. And while Tiger might shrug and give a smart alleck grin, I do think he gives credit to other golfers (for the most part) when they beat him. I don't believe Serena does.

Although Elliotte's point is fair, I think Alma's is as well. There is a tightrope walk between arrogance, confidence and delusion. Serena is a great athlete, and she'll go down as one of the greatest players ever. And it's probably a good thing that she's had interests outside her sport because I don't think anyone should be punished for believing there is more to life than tennis. But Safina is No. 1 because she's dragged her ass to tournaments all around the world for the better part of a year and taken on all comers. There is something to be said for that, the desire to compete often and be there competing because it's good for the sport, not just for good for the player. If everyone played Serena's schedule, there would be no WTA Tour. So people like Safina are essentially subsidizing the big paychecks that Serena can win when she choses to by keeping the momentum of the tour going year round.

Of course Serena's probably still the best player. But she's not the No. 1 ranked player. They're clearly two different things. If it mattered to Serena to be No. 1, she could probably change that. Clearly it does not. It mattered to Steffi Graff to be No. 1, and that's part of the reason why Serena will never touch Steffi's 22 Slams.

and this is the reason why the Williams sisters will never be appreciated. Even when they win, it's always couched alongside them not winning enough or how they don't care for the game.

 

[zagoshe]

This is why most athletes refuse to say anything. Because, when they're honest, we rip them.

So when some baseball player says "the better team just lost this series 4-0," like, say, that jackass from the Diamondbacks did a few years ago, the proper response is to make no comment on it out of fear that they'll never anything that stupid again?

And I'd quibble with your general sentiment anyhow. The tennis media treats Serena Williams quite well, especially the TV media. She gets a lot more of a free pass then Henin (or, for that matter, Hingis) ever did. (Hingis especially was villainized, deservedly so, for the "half a man" comment.)

That is not even close to being in the same realm of what Serena Williams said.

One was the delusional rant of a desperate player, the other is the feelings of a player who, a helluva lot of people who know a lot more about tennis than the average person, would make a very sound argument is the best player, particularly when she is healthy - which she hasn't been the last few years.

And the rankings mean very little in tennis in terms of determining who is the best player.

 

[tapintoamerica]

The tennis rankings system seems dispassionate and entirely empirical. Only raw numbers matter. Therefore, I can understand why anybody could call them into question when they are purported to determine the "best" player on the planet.

 

[sportschick]

The tennis rankings system seems dispassionate and entirely empirical. Only raw numbers matter. Therefore, I can understand why anybody could call them into question when they are purported to determine the "best" player on the planet.

The rankings said Jelena Jankovic (sp) was the "best" player last year. Um, how about no.

 

[ringer]

The humility.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/news/story?id=4135094

Once again, she reiterates she's never lost a match in her life.

What? She doesn't say that. What Serena does say is pretty innocuous. Safina even agrees with her.

So what if Serena's brazen. No crime there.

What I do have a problem with is that she (and Venus) didn't boycott the Dubai event when a player was denied entry on grounds of discrimination. The Williams of all people (with their self-imposed boycott at Indian Wells for related reasons), should have made a statement by pulling out.

 

[Double J]

Padraig Harrington agrees wholeheartedly with this thread, because he was the 2008 player of the year so he is THE BEST, PERIOD, until the 2009 award. Let's all hope the Woods guy doesn't make an ass out of himself and claim to be the best.

The difference would be that Tiger takes his role in the sport ridiculously serious, understands his place in history, and lives to beat the ever loving **** out of everyone every week he competes. I think the only time Tiger's ever shown up ill-prepared for a tournament was the US Open after Earl died. And while Tiger might shrug and give a smart alleck grin, I do think he gives credit to other golfers (for the most part) when they beat him. I don't believe Serena does.

Although Elliotte's point is fair, I think Alma's is as well. There is a tightrope walk between arrogance, confidence and delusion. Serena is a great athlete, and she'll go down as one of the greatest players ever. And it's probably a good thing that she's had interests outside her sport because I don't think anyone should be punished for believing there is more to life than tennis. But Safina is No. 1 because she's dragged her ass to tournaments all around the world for the better part of a year and taken on all comers. There is something to be said for that, the desire to compete often and be there competing because it's good for the sport, not just for good for the player. If everyone played Serena's schedule, there would be no WTA Tour. So people like Safina are essentially subsidizing the big paychecks that Serena can win when she choses to by keeping the momentum of the tour going year round.

Of course Serena's probably still the best player. But she's not the No. 1 ranked player. They're clearly two different things. If it mattered to Serena to be No. 1, she could probably change that. Clearly it does not. It mattered to Steffi Graff to be No. 1, and that's part of the reason why Serena will never touch Steffi's 22 Slams.

and this is the reason why the Williams sisters will never be appreciated. Even when they win, it's always couched alongside them not winning enough or how they don't care for the game.

DD's post has plenty of appreciation for Williams and her accomplishments.

 

[Hammer Pants]

I love the part about her off-court activities.

"I've been writing, but I haven't been writing. In my mind I've been saying I want to write, but I haven't actually physically picked up a pencil and started writing," the U.S. Open and Australian Open champion said.

I'm going to say this exact same phrase to my boss tomorrow.

 

[Alma]

Padraig Harrington agrees wholeheartedly with this thread, because he was the 2008 player of the year so he is THE BEST, PERIOD, until the 2009 award. Let's all hope the Woods guy doesn't make an ass out of himself and claim to be the best.

Here's what Woods did say on the matter:

"We all know he's been a wonderful player. It's just a matter of Paddy winning his first major. You knew that was going to happen, and he has the game to win more. And lo and behold, he wins two last year."

Yep, just like Serena.

 

[Alma]

This is why most athletes refuse to say anything. Because, when they're honest, we rip them.

So when some baseball player says "the better team just lost this series 4-0," like, say, that jackass from the Diamondbacks did a few years ago, the proper response is to make no comment on it out of fear that they'll never anything that stupid again?

And I'd quibble with your general sentiment anyhow. The tennis media treats Serena Williams quite well, especially the TV media. She gets a lot more of a free pass then Henin (or, for that matter, Hingis) ever did. (Hingis especially was villainized, deservedly so, for the "half a man" comment.)

That is not even close to being in the same realm of what Serena Williams said.

One was the delusional rant of a desperate player, the other is the feelings of a player who, a helluva lot of people who know a lot more about tennis than the average person, would make a very sound argument is the best player, particularly when she is healthy - which she hasn't been the last few years.

And the rankings mean very little in tennis in terms of determining who is the best player.

OK, OK, I'll let her mom make the case for me...

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/wimbledon08/columns/story?columnist=harwitt_sandra&id=3475225&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos2

 

[zagoshe]

This is why most athletes refuse to say anything. Because, when they're honest, we rip them.

So when some baseball player says "the better team just lost this series 4-0," like, say, that jackass from the Diamondbacks did a few years ago, the proper response is to make no comment on it out of fear that they'll never anything that stupid again?

And I'd quibble with your general sentiment anyhow. The tennis media treats Serena Williams quite well, especially the TV media. She gets a lot more of a free pass then Henin (or, for that matter, Hingis) ever did. (Hingis especially was villainized, deservedly so, for the "half a man" comment.)

That is not even close to being in the same realm of what Serena Williams said.

One was the delusional rant of a desperate player, the other is the feelings of a player who, a helluva lot of people who know a lot more about tennis than the average person, would make a very sound argument is the best player, particularly when she is healthy - which she hasn't been the last few years.

And the rankings mean very little in tennis in terms of determining who is the best player.

OK, OK, I'll let her mom make the case for me...

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/wimbledon08/columns/story?columnist=harwitt_sandra&id=3475225&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos2

What case is that -- that Serena is ultra-competitive, in the same way all of the greatest ones are?

Thanks, but we've already all conceded that.

 

[Chuck~Taylor]

Serena: 10 majors
Safina: 0 majors

Serena>Safina

 

[Double J]

Serena: 10 majors
Safina: 0 majors

Serena>Safina

As it stands right now:

Safina - No. 1 in the WTA
S. Williams - No. 2

 

[dooley_womack1]

Serena: 10 majors
Safina: 0 majors

Serena>Safina

So if Steffi Graf came out of retirement, it'd be Steffi>Serena? Your reasoning's a big disingenuous. And besides, being able to play more than a few tournaments should count for something. More than likely, Serena is better than Safina, but it would be a subjective argument, not an objective one.

 

[Chuck~Taylor]

Serena: 10 majors
Safina: 0 majors

Serena>Safina

So if Steffi Graf came out of retirement, it'd be Steffi>Serena? Your reasoning's a big disingenuous. And besides, being able to play more than a few tournaments should count for something. More than likely, Serena is better than Safina, but it would be a subjective argument, not an objective one.

Her last major win(the Australian Open) was against Safina.

 

[Double J]

Irrelevant as far as the points system is concerned.

 

[dooley_womack1]

Serena: 10 majors
Safina: 0 majors

Serena>Safina

So if Steffi Graf came out of retirement, it'd be Steffi>Serena? Your reasoning's a big disingenuous. And besides, being able to play more than a few tournaments should count for something. More than likely, Serena is better than Safina, but it would be a subjective argument, not an objective one.

Her last major win(the Australian Open) was against Safina.

Irrelevant to what you were trying to argue. Serena sure the hell isn't the greatest ever; she'd be lucky to be top five. You should lose points for not being healthy.

 

[Double J]

Serena sure the hell isn't the greatest ever; she'd be lucky to be top five. You should lose points for not being healthy.

Serena reacts to dooley's assessment:

 

[Chuck~Taylor]

Serena: 10 majors
Safina: 0 majors

Serena>Safina

So if Steffi Graf came out of retirement, it'd be Steffi>Serena? Your reasoning's a big disingenuous. And besides, being able to play more than a few tournaments should count for something. More than likely, Serena is better than Safina, but it would be a subjective argument, not an objective one.

Her last major win(the Australian Open) was against Safina.

Irrelevant to what you were trying to argue. Serena sure the hell isn't the greatest ever; she'd be lucky to be top five. You should lose points for not being healthy.

The last major that was won this year was won by Serena and it was won against Safina, period end of story. Its pretty damn obvious who the better player is. We can talk about her class all we want, but you can't debate what goes down on the court.

 

[dooley_womack1]

It's one match. If Serena can do that several times against Safina, then you might have something. And what goes down on the court is that Safina shows up to do her job much more than Serena does. Let's see if Serena would be so great doing 25-30 tourneys a year.