23rd Annual SF_Express "Stamp Out Respective/Respectively" Campaign

[SF_Express]

This doesn't have to be a long ongoing thread, but I bring this up every now and then because I'm on crusade.

Following paragraph was in a decent story in my local paper today:

"The young men are named after their respective fathers, both of whom died within the past month."

I don't blame the writer, because this is SOP in this paper. Might be one editor who believes in it and has preached it down the line. Maybe it's a lone copy editor.

There is zero (no wiggle room) reason for "respective" to be in that paragraph, placed very high in the story.

"The young men are named after their fathers, both of whom died in the past month."

"Respective" is a pace- and writing-killing word, and if it were up to me, it would be out of the dictionary.

I'm unlikely to have that power, but I'd ban it from newspaper and website writing except for such narrow exceptions that I can't even think of any examples right now.

Carry on.

 

[BTExpress]

I respectively agree.

 

[SF_Express]

I respectively agree.

Damn you!

 

[Johnny Dangerously]

I had that epiphany not long ago -- and then the had-it-drummed-inro-me habit came back, and I let it go through in copy. Thank you for bringing me back to my liberated self.

 

[SF_Express]

I had that epiphany not long ago -- and then the had-it-drummed-inro-me habit came back, and I let it go through in copy. Thank you for bringing me back to my liberated self.

One editor at a time, if that's what it takes.

 

[Ace]

I dunno, S_F. Unless the writer clearly pointed it out, how can I be sure that the kids' weren't named after each other's fathers?

 

[SF_Express]

I dunno, S_F. Unless the writer clearly pointed it out, how can I be sure that the kids' weren't named after each other's fathers?

I thought about that, but feel the gains made by eradicating it will far outweigh any possible downside.

 

[Ace]

I dunno, S_F. Unless the writer clearly pointed it out, how can I be sure that the kids' weren't named after each other's fathers?

I thought about that, but feel the gains made by eradicating it will far outweigh any possible downside.

You are correct, of course. Just scraping for loopholes.

 

[Editude]

Any connection to the oft-misued hopeful/hopefully?

 

[imjustagirl]

Hopefully.

 

[21]

After this campaign, can we work on stamping out 'irregardless'?

 

[SF_Express]

Hopefully, and the nonexistent irregardless, are both problems, but I'm pretty much a one issue campaigner right now.

I read a story last year, and it was really good. And the lead referenced something about "driving down the road to his respective house" or something, and it killed the mood. It literally killed a good story. It's that critical.

 

[joe king]

At least 80 percent of the uses of "that" in newpaper stories are unnecessary. And I will personally strangle the next writer who files a story saying someone "would go on to" do something.

Others: People misuse "hapless" constantly. It means unlucky or unfortunate, not inept. And a "journeyman" is not a well-traveled person or player, or one barely hanging onto his job. He is "an experienced, reliable worker, especially distinguished from one who is brilliant or colorful" -- in other words, a solid but unspectacular performer.

I've ranted enough. Indeed, too much.

 

[SF_Express]

I knew this would evolve into everybody's pet peeves, which I'm OK with despite my single-mindedness about this issue, but Joe, I have to say, when people use "journeyman," their intent is often the actual definition you cite: experienced, reliable, hangs around, not distinguished. It doesn't have to mean they've traveled a lot. A "journeyman PGA Tour player" is somebody who's always around 125, high or low, on the money list and rarely if ever wins.

 

[Ace]

I'm with you on your campaign, S_F. I don't know that I've ever used respective or respectively as a writer.

As an editor, I usually take it out (Timmy and Skippy are 12 and 13, respectively).

When I see it it makes me figuratively scratch my head over why someone why write it that way. If it's not clear, wouldn't it be easier to get their ages or hometowns or IQs or father's name or whatever in some other way?

I don't know if it's a crutch or if it sounds kinda high-falutin' to some folks.

 

[SF_Express]

As an editor, I usually take it out (Timmy and Skippy are 12 and 13, respectively).

There are many who think this is OK, but I'm hard core on it. I say that the parallel construction makes that easy to figure, and that "respectively" doesn't add much clarity for the average reader.

But the other is indefensible: "Jones and Smith spoke to to their respective mothers and decided to play in the league."

 

[joe king]

I knew this would evolve into everybody's pet peeves, which I'm OK with despite my single-mindedness about this issue, but Joe, I have to say, when people use "journeyman," their intent is often the actual definition you cite: experienced, reliable, hangs around, not distinguished. It doesn't have to mean they've traveled a lot. A "journeyman PGA Tour player" is somebody who's always around 125, high or low, on the money list and rarely if ever wins.

Most of the time I see it, it's referring to some player who's barely hanging onto his spot on the team, or has been cut six times in his career, or is only playing because two guys are hurt.

Just did a quick Google search and here a few NFL players described in various reports as journeymen:

J.T. O'Sullivan

Carey Davis, a fullback who had just been picked up by his sixth team in his six NFL seasons

A.J. Feeley

Amon Gordon, a DL who had appeared in 20 games with six teams in his seven NFL seasons (with a grand total of 36 career tackles)

Ola Kimrin, a kicker who at the time of the story was 30 and had "bounced around training camps for years" but had never kicked in a regular-season game


Find me the journeyman in that list. Feeley, maybe, and that's being generous.

And that's just a quickie search.

 

[SF_Express]

I knew this would evolve into everybody's pet peeves, which I'm OK with despite my single-mindedness about this issue, but Joe, I have to say, when people use "journeyman," their intent is often the actual definition you cite: experienced, reliable, hangs around, not distinguished. It doesn't have to mean they've traveled a lot. A "journeyman PGA Tour player" is somebody who's always around 125, high or low, on the money list and rarely if ever wins.

Most of the time I see it, it's referring to some player who's barely hanging onto his spot on the team, or has been cut six times in his career, or is only playing because two guys are hurt.

Just did a quick Google search and here a few NFL players described in various reports as journeymen:

J.T. O'Sullivan

Carey Davis, a fullback who had just been picked up by his sixth team in his six NFL seasons

A.J. Feeley

Amon Gordon, a DL who had appeared in 20 games with six teams in his seven NFL seasons (with a grand total of 36 career tackles)

Ola Kimrin, a kicker who at the time of the story was 30 and had "bounced around training camps for years" but had never kicked in a regular-season game


Find me the journeyman in that list. Feeley, maybe, and that's being generous.

And that's just a quickie search.

I honestly had never noticed that; good point.

 

[lone star scribe]

We went 'round and 'round with respectively one night on the copy desk. Writer used it, I took it out, somebody down the line restored it, then I took it out upon proofreading the page. I finally told the editor who kept putting it back in that my goal was to eliminate every unnecessary construction in that story, and if I did I could probably shorten it 6 inches. He finally left it in.

And don't even get me started on "arguably."

 

[Versatile]

My big pet peeve lately has been "in fact," "honestly" and other such constructions. We don't need to tell the readers we're not lying to them if we never intentionally lie to them.