2019 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

[Della9250]

 

[Della9250]

Veterans committee ballot has been released:

2019 Today's Game Era Ballot

Harold Baines, Albert Belle, Joe Carter, Will Clark, Orel Hershiser, Davey Johnson, Charlie Manuel, Lou Piniella, Lee Smith and George Steinbrenner

Strongest candidates are Baines, Belle, Piniella, Smith, Steinbrenner.

I don't get Davy Johnson and Charlie Manuel over Jim Leyland, who is a Hall of Fame manager.

Also, considering that Rivera is a lock on the regular ballot, my guess here is Steinbrenner gets elected.

 

[Guy_Incognito]

Veterans committee ballot has been released:

2019 Today's Game Era Ballot

Harold Baines, Albert Belle, Joe Carter, Will Clark, Orel Hershiser, Davey Johnson, Charlie Manuel, Lou Piniella, Lee Smith and George Steinbrenner

Strongest candidates are Baines, Belle, Piniella, Smith, Steinbrenner.

I don't get Davy Johnson and Charlie Manuel over Jim Leyland, who is a Hall of Fame manager.

Also, considering that Rivera is a lock on the regular ballot, my guess here is Steinbrenner gets elected.

Baines = McGriff, so a no from me. Belle should be in. Steinbrenner? I wouldn't, but they will. No one else, though Morris likely opens the door for Hershiser.

 

[User 149557]

It's not just the hip that cost Belle the Hall of Fame. Give him 58 more games in 1994 and 19 more games in 1995 from the strike years and he gets to 400 home runs, which I think for some stupid reason would've looked more compelling for the voters.

 

[playthrough]

Lee Smith should get in. And if Jerry Jones can get into the Football HOF, Steinbrenner belongs here. Especially since his teams won.

 

[CD Boogie]

Belle should definitely be in. He got robbed of his 1995 AL MVP.

Charlie Manuel? WTF?

Orel H.'s peak was great, but it was short. He had 2 shutouts total in the last 11 years of his career, with no black ink during that stretch, no ASG appearances or Cy Young votes. He did lead the league in losses in 1992, though.

I hate the Yankees and Steinbrenner, but personal feelings aside the guy made an indelible impression on the game. I'd put him in -- right after Pete Rose and Howard Spira. Which is to say, never.

EDIT: And yes on Jayson Stark.

 

[Della9250]

Baines = McGriff, so a no from me. Belle should be in. Steinbrenner? I wouldn't, but they will. No one else, though Morris likely opens the door for Hershiser.

How does Morris open the door for Hershiser?

 

[outofplace]

Lee Smith should get in. And if Jerry Jones can get into the Football HOF, Steinbrenner belongs here. Especially since his teams won.

You can't really compare across sports like that. You've got two completely different sets of voters and the criteria aren't exactly the same.

 

[playthrough]

You can't really compare across sports like that. You've got two completely different sets of voters and the criteria aren't exactly the same.

I know, I know. But Steinbrenner was a pivotal figure, for better or worse. And I'm far from a fan.

 

[Steak Snabler]

I know, I know. But Steinbrenner was a pivotal figure, for better or worse. And I'm far from a fan.

Yeah, he's qualified in the same way Charlie Finley is (speaking of guys who will never get in).

That's a pretty weak player group, though I think Will Clark was better than people remember.

Belle was an incredible hitter, but gave back a ton of value with his wretched defense. He was/is also a borderline sociopath, so there's that.

 

[cyclingwriter2]

Ted Simmons was a better player than of these guys on the ballot.

That said, Lee Smith was a better pitcher than I remembered him. Joe Carter was worse than I remember.

 

[Della9250]

Ted Simmons was a better player than of these guys on the ballot.

That said, Lee Smith was a better pitcher than I remembered him. Joe Carter was worse than I remember.

Today's Era ballot is always the weakest of the three because of the lack of candidates because of the restrictions on the rules and the recent nature of the candidates -- all of the guys who should be in are in. It also doesn't help when someone like McGwire isn't included.

 

[Della9250]

This was the ballot two years ago: Harold Baines, Albert Belle, Will Clark, Orel Hershiser, Davey Johnson, Mark McGwire, Lou Piniella, John Schuerholz, Bud Selig and George Steinbrenner.

They dropped McGwire, Schuerholz and Selig got in and they added Smith, who became eligible since that last ballot, Carter and Manuel.

They should have kept McGwire and added Smith and Leyland

 

[cyclingwriter2]

And therein lies the problem that the hall had been back in the 1940s. The writers were not putting in highly qualified players while the vets were putting in everyone.

 

[Guy_Incognito]

How does Morris open the door for Hershiser?

It lowers the bar for SPs. The best case to make for hershiser is to compare him to Morris.

 

[tapintoamerica]

I know, I know. But Steinbrenner was a pivotal figure, for better or worse. And I'm far from a fan.

The best thing Steinbrenner did as owner was to get banned and to be forced to stay away. In his absence, management drafted and developed the core of a dynasty. Not sure how that benefits Steinbrenner's case.
Walter O'Malley is in because he brought baseball west of the Mississippi. That's an achievement. Branch Rickey integrated the game and helped integrate society as a whole in the process.
George fired a lot of managers. His team won because it's an iconic franchise in a massive media market with massive revenue. Only when he was banished did the team begin to use that revenue to develop a farm system.
Was his a voice that fostered long-term labor peace? I'm not aware of that, but if that's true, then you can put him in.
Without compelling evidence such as that, it's fair to consider character. He's a convicted felon. Again, his conduct was so wretched that he was banished from the game for a year.

 

[tapintoamerica]

It looks to me that the most recent induction of an owner was 1991 (Bill Veeck.) Now that guy was an innovator. Crazy, perhaps, but his promotional acumen made a mark.
Again, something distinctive for the betterment of the game at large is required in my book for an owner to get in.

 

[Della9250]

It looks to me that the most recent induction of an owner was 1991 (Bill Veeck.) Now that guy was an innovator. Crazy, perhaps, but his promotional acumen made a mark.
Again, something distinctive for the betterment of the game at large is required in my book for an owner to get in.

Explain Tom Yawkey then

 

[Della9250]

It lowers the bar for SPs. The best case to make for hershiser is to compare him to Morris.

It may lower the bar but there's almost no spots Hershiser clears, even against Morris. Morris' induction makes it look bad that guys like Mussina and Schilling are still waiting.

 

[tapintoamerica]

Love Harold Baines, but only two Top-10 MVP finishes (one 10th, one ninth.) No on him.
Albert Belle is despised, but the run he had was one of the best in history. He drove in ≥ 100 runs in nine straight seasons. I'm guessing the toxic personality is the chief reason for his exclusion. Although suspended once for seven games for using a corked bat, he wasn't widely suspected of steroids, I don't think. Curiously, he did retire before the advent of steroid testing, but that may have just been weird Albert. And weird he was. At the age of 33, he drove in 100 or more runs for the ninth straight season. And then he abruptly retired, never to be heard from again.

The list of those with ≥ RBI in nine seasons has 29 people on it. Of them:
* 18 are already in.
* 5 are widely acknowledged steroid cheats (Bonds, Palmeiro, Sosa, A-Fraud and Manny Ramirez).
* 2 (Miguel Cabrera, David Ortiz) are not yet eligible because they're relatively recent retirees, but I presume both will be in.
* 1 (Albert Pujols) is still playing but will be in ASAP.

This leaves us with three: Carlos Delgado, Albert Belle and another member of the veterans committee nominee list, Joe Carter.